Page 8 | Nearly 5000 now dead, mostly women and children. Sickening.

flashbac · 2023-10-22T15:37:30+00:00

At what point will it stop? Why are the Palestinians seen as vermin? Ethnic cleansing is what this is.

senior30 · 22/10/2023 23:50

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:42

If people think that Jews are terrible people and that Israel should be dissolved, just say it. At least we’d know where we all stand

It's so confusing! People on here repeatedly saying Israel stole land from the Palestinians, yet unable to follow that thought through to what that actually means.

It only means one thing doesn't it?

Yes, it means that Israel has continually taken more and more land from Palestinians. You can imply that we’re all anti-semites for saying that but it’s quite easy for you to find that it’s just the truth. I’m unsure what about that is confusing for you?

Gruntsandgroans · 22/10/2023 23:52

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:49

I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse, but the ideology from Hamas and Palestinians is that Israel is literally stolen land.

But we aren't Hamas. And Israel are stealing land, all of the time at an increasing rate. That's what people here mean when they say Israel steal land. There is no double meaning just facts.

And lots of Gazans don't want to go to Egypt precisely because Israel steal land. They believe(and who can blame them) that they will never be allowed home.

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:53

senior30 · 22/10/2023 23:50

Yes, it means that Israel has continually taken more and more land from Palestinians. You can imply that we’re all anti-semites for saying that but it’s quite easy for you to find that it’s just the truth. I’m unsure what about that is confusing for you?

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You are aligning with an ideology that states that Israel does not have a right to exist

Onviously you are entitled to that opinion, go for your life - I'd prefer not to be repeating that personally, given the history and all that

Toothyfruity · 22/10/2023 23:54

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:53

You are aligning with an ideology that states that Israel does not have a right to exist

Onviously you are entitled to that opinion, go for your life - I'd prefer not to be repeating that personally, given the history and all that

Show quote history

No it means that Israel steals land from Palestinian and gives it to settlers illegally. You know that of course.

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:54

But we aren't Hamas. And Israel are stealing land, all of the time at an increasing rate. That's what people here mean when they say Israel steal land. There is no double meaning just facts.

You are supporting the Hamas narrative that Israel is stolen land.

Rachelw84 · 22/10/2023 23:55

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:49

I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse, but the ideology from Hamas and Palestinians is that Israel is literally stolen land.

That’s exactly what happened in 1946-1947. They were then displaced and continue to be displaced.

I don’t mean to be rude but have you done any research into this at all? Where do you get your information from?

Efacsen · 22/10/2023 23:56

ketchup07070 · 22/10/2023 23:25

Gaza's neighbours do not want these lawless, young, uneducated, manipulated, indoctrinated people in their hands. Why?

Classic right wing racist xenophobia. There are Palestinian surgeons, doctors, writers and academics. There used to be a rather good university there too - not sure if it's still standing. You did stop short of calling Palestinians 'savages', well done.

The University has gone - completely destroyed one afternoon last week

Along with the luxury shopping mall and high class housing for the Hamas elite

and the shady walks and olive trees

The whole district gone

Gruntsandgroans · 22/10/2023 23:56

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:54

But we aren't Hamas. And Israel are stealing land, all of the time at an increasing rate. That's what people here mean when they say Israel steal land. There is no double meaning just facts.

You are supporting the Hamas narrative that Israel is stolen land.

Wtf? You need to lie down or something.

Toothyfruity · 22/10/2023 23:56

Rachelw84 · 22/10/2023 23:55

That’s exactly what happened in 1946-1947. They were then displaced and continue to be displaced.

I don’t mean to be rude but have you done any research into this at all? Where do you get your information from?

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I thought this poster was genuinely ignorant too upthread but they're not. Just letting on that they are.

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/10/2023 23:56

You are aligning with an ideology that states that Israel does not have a right to exist

And I agree with Putin that horses are nice. And with Pol Pot that the Sorbonne gives a good education. And with Mao that red is a pretty colour. Logical fallacy isn't fact.

We see everyone trying desperately to say that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's simply not true.

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:57

Rachelw84 · 22/10/2023 23:55

That’s exactly what happened in 1946-1947. They were then displaced and continue to be displaced.

I don’t mean to be rude but have you done any research into this at all? Where do you get your information from?

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So what is your solution for Israel? You say their land was stolen in 1947 from the Palestinians...so what now? What do you want to happen?

senior30 · 23/10/2023 00:01

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:53

You are aligning with an ideology that states that Israel does not have a right to exist

Onviously you are entitled to that opinion, go for your life - I'd prefer not to be repeating that personally, given the history and all that

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I’m quite sure you can’t be serious having read the rest of your responses. If you are then I think you need to close mumsnet and open a book if you’re genuinely this ignorant to the history of the region.

Trulywonderful · 23/10/2023 00:01

Efacsen · 22/10/2023 23:56

The University has gone - completely destroyed one afternoon last week

Along with the luxury shopping mall and high class housing for the Hamas elite

and the shady walks and olive trees

The whole district gone

Edited

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Not the place where they hold equestrian events too?

They do hold show jumping events in the place people call a giant refugee camp actual.

They also have a higher education level than the global average.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 00:01

So what is your solution for Israel? You say their land was stolen in 1947 from the Palestinians...so what now? What do you want to happen?

The Good Friday Agreement was hard and I couldn't have come up with it on the back of a napkin. But it happened.

Just because I know bombing civilians in Gaza back to the Stone Age isn't the answer, doesn't mean I have one. I just know that's not it.

Rachelw84 · 23/10/2023 00:02

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:57

So what is your solution for Israel? You say their land was stolen in 1947 from the Palestinians...so what now? What do you want to happen?

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Oslo Accords was a proposed solution, signed by the then Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat (the then Palestinian leader).

That gave Palestinians the chance to self govern.

Benjamin Netanyahu mocked the killing of Rabin. Rabin was then assassinated by far right Jewish nationalist and the peace plan fell apart.

The solution is a two state solution, recognise Palestine. Let them self govern and give them their dignity.

Huwipulotu · 23/10/2023 00:03

hamstersarse · 22/10/2023 23:57

So what is your solution for Israel? You say their land was stolen in 1947 from the Palestinians...so what now? What do you want to happen?

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Personally I’d like to see Israel remove all settlers from Palestinian land, withdraw to the pre 1967 borders and leave the Palestinians alone. But because of the ultra-right nutcases in the current Israeli coalition that will never happen because a man-made book says the land is theirs.

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 23/10/2023 00:06

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/10/2023 23:56

You are aligning with an ideology that states that Israel does not have a right to exist

And I agree with Putin that horses are nice. And with Pol Pot that the Sorbonne gives a good education. And with Mao that red is a pretty colour. Logical fallacy isn't fact.

We see everyone trying desperately to say that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's simply not true.

Your answer to my post noticeably avoided what I said about fixation on Israel.

I do accept that criticism of Israel is justifiable, as it would be of any country. But it’s the single-minded condemnation of Israel that’s so telling among so many.

(As it happens I would like the settlements to be removed too. Though I have no doubt that would do nothing to change Iran’s catspaws Hamas and Hezbollah.)

I really don’t think that agreement with bad actors about trivia is remotely relevant to support for a group avowedly, explicitly committed to the extermination of Jews.

Efacsen · 23/10/2023 00:07

Trulywonderful · 23/10/2023 00:01

Not the place where they hold equestrian events too?

They do hold show jumping events in the place people call a giant refugee camp actual.

They also have a higher education level than the global average.

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IDK if that was there as well - it was all 'the nice things' in one afternoon

BumWad · 23/10/2023 00:08

PinkTeaForMe · 22/10/2023 20:56

I deleted the Daily Mail app to protect my mental health. I wasn't expecting the same crowd on MN. The comments on this thread are absolutely vile.

If you really want to see what the Palestinians are enduring right now go and view Motaz_azaiza profile on Instagram. And then imagine your children in the place of those innocent civilians. It's not a war, it's a massacre. It's murder on the world stage and our so-called leaders are facilitating it all. It's an illegal occupation and it didn't start on 7th October. Please educate yourselves on the history of the region before proclaiming that Israel have a right to defend themselves.

This.

Trulywonderful · 23/10/2023 00:09

Huwipulotu · 23/10/2023 00:03

Personally I’d like to see Israel remove all settlers from Palestinian land, withdraw to the pre 1967 borders and leave the Palestinians alone. But because of the ultra-right nutcases in the current Israeli coalition that will never happen because a man-made book says the land is theirs.

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I don't disagree there

I think the only way forward is to stop any more settlements. Then the UN or a neutral arab state polices and encourages between intergation between those currently living there. They can pull out only once things are stable enough and more peaceful between everyone. The PO do continue to govern etc.

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2023 00:13

Teentaxidriver · 22/10/2023 17:33

Of course, we’ll take your word for that number.

The UN are saying they've had 29 of their workers killed in Gaza since Oct 7th.

Whilst we can't confirm the number of Palestinian dead, the mere fact that the UN are coming up with these kinds of numbers for their own people is dreadful.

We also have satellite pictures showing entire neighbours flattened in Gaza.

It tells a story about how unacceptable Israel's response is and how many are likely to be dead.

So no we can't trust Hamas figures, there's plenty of reasons to believe that thousands of Palestinians HAVE been killed.

Hamas attack was totally unacceptable but the response from Israel isn't ok either. How does it make anyone safer? It just doesn't.

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 23/10/2023 00:17

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 00:01

So what is your solution for Israel? You say their land was stolen in 1947 from the Palestinians...so what now? What do you want to happen?

The Good Friday Agreement was hard and I couldn't have come up with it on the back of a napkin. But it happened.

Just because I know bombing civilians in Gaza back to the Stone Age isn't the answer, doesn't mean I have one. I just know that's not it.

The GFA happened because the IRA knew it couldn’t win. It had been penetrated so extensively that it was compromised. Even so there needed to be give and take, but it started with a broadly shared view of the likely future as things stood. And Ireland isn’t Israel anyway.

Everyone’s in favour of talks which could lead to peace and stability. The difficulty is that Hamas want the end of Israel and Jews and nothing less, and have powerful external funders and directors. In those circumstances it seems a bit pointless to say ‘I don’t know, but this isn’t an acceptable way to stop your nation and your people being destroyed by racist homicidal maniacs’.

SeeReality · 23/10/2023 00:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

ketchup07070 · 23/10/2023 00:22

@Efacsen Sorry to hear of the University and of course the horses. Thank you for info.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 01:12

I do accept that criticism of Israel is justifiable, as it would be of any country. But it’s the single-minded condemnation of Israel that’s so telling among so many.

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps

I went to many protests for Ukraine, raised money, you can see many posts by me on here. After Syria, I was involved with my local immigrant and refugee centre, did some education work, spent time and money helping. Fuck I was OBSESSED with American interventionism decades ago. You can again see a posts from me on here when good ol' George Bush died. It's not single-minded condemnation of Israel. Maybe for some people it is. Please don't assume it is for everyone.

I hope that's reassuring. Because it must be utterly shit right now for Jewish people around the world who have no influence on the Israeli government at all.