To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

That's the most idiotic thing I think I've heard all week - and I've heard a lot!

So how did they have the necessary materials to build all their tunnels, their impressive rockets, all the weapons they had to execute their massive attack on Israel, all the fuel this required?

Imagine if Hamas did have control of a port, they'd have the latest Iranian and Russians weapons to murder more babies!

That reminds me!

The Government of South Korea believes North Korea may have helped Hamas....

North Korea, Russia, Iran.
What a delightful bunch of countries. Definitely on the right side of history here.

North Korea is so desperate for hard currency they would sell weapons to anyone.

Apparently Pakistan is involved as well. Pictures of Hamas fighters who trained in Pakistan are doing the rounds. Wonder how they left that open air prison and reentered.
The is also a quote of the Pakistani ambassador to Egypt admiting to training Hamas from 2021

Not surprised. Pakistan is always the most virulently anti semitic country there is. I guess they need soemthign around which to rally their failing state and Palestine is their cause celebre

It is ironic when Pakistan has committed bona fide genocide against Bangladesh when they became independent in the1970s and, of course, Pakistan was a total unenecessary creation and only came into being through massive ethnic cleasning and massacres on a scale never ever seen in the entire conflict betweens Arabs and Israelis. But hypocrisy never stopped anyone.

They'd be pretty fucking dumb to build a port when they are under blockade by air, land and sea What would they have used the port for? Instagram pics?

Can we just have a look at the countries supporting Hamas/Palestine

Egypt
Jordan
Lebanon
Pakistan (allegedly)
Iraq
Syria
Iran
Saudi
Qatar

Those countries lack the following:

Basic Human Rights
No Equality for Women
No Democracy
No Equality for minorities
No Tolerance for minorities
No Religious Freedom (Maybe some in Lebanon)
No LTGBBQ Rights - Actual death sentences
Girls and Boys in Separate Class Rooms
Actual slavery going on right now.

Can anyone tell me why some people people in this country want to put their lot in with the above?

The people what put their lot in with the above also tend to ignore:

11,000 children killed in Yemen in War with Saudi
2,000,000 Christian refugees from Iraq
5,000,000 Refugees from Afghanistan feeling a brutal regime
2,000,000 Refugees from Sudan and South Sudan
2,000,000 Refugees from Syria

Why is it when Arabs and Muslims are kicking the shit out of each other you don't seem to care and only seem to care when it's Israelis doing it?

I will never understand you.

So first they bomb people evacuating now they're bombing where they told people to evacuate?! They can keep peddling the same we were looking for Hamas excuse everytime they commit a war crime.

It's not wanting to put lots in with Hamas supporting countries

Being against Israel's actions in Gaza is not siding with Hamas

It is possible to be against the actions of Hamas as well as Israel

Trying to force people to find points of difference and take sides is not nice.

So do you support the People of Palestine? Because if you do there is zero of the things I mentioned like tolerance of minorities, religious freedom and equality in that country.

I'm sorry, but this is true.

The bit where you've completely made up your own narrative, based off nothing that matches the reality of NI in the early 90s. The IRA ceasefire came off the back of overtures made to them by John Major's government from 1993.

Two dead in Belgium after the one in France. Why do some people think conflicts are resolved in this way.

Except you'll find what I've said matches the reality of Northern Ireland in the 1990s. What's more, I use words of PIRA itself as to how they defined defeat in addition to PIRA members.

In the end, PSF/PIRA got none of their long held key core demands in the Belfast Agreement. They had to walk back on all they'd said previously.

You'll find I included a range of material as supporting evidence. 🤷‍♂️

Well, you'll have to face the reality that Hamas and other terrorist groups have the support of a clear majority of Palestinians.

Both sideism aka False Balance is a logical fallacy as it suggests both views are equal when they are not necessarily in reality.

On some things, you do have to pick a side. On some things you don't.

Terrorism is one of the things you do have to pick a side in as opposed to sitting on the fence or both sideism.

Its the media pumping negetive e false news out, thats why that little boy got killed in the US, I should be charged as a terrorist attack too.

Huh
What are you on about.
Read the news

There’s always someone that throws in another issue taking issue that not the same concern is give.
@Enyo2 if you’re asking questions about thoughts on Yemen in this thread I suggest starting another thread OR learning about this conflict and why it matters to so many other countries. Has Yemen destabilized rhe world? No. But if you knew enough about the history of Israel you wouldn’t start that drama here. Enough.

Innocent people are dying. This morning on BBC an Imam, Priest and Rabbi stood together seeking peace. If grown ups on Mumsnet could stop the petty accusations and get to the heart of the matter identifying bad actors bs citizens and have a basic understanding of how Hamas
gained power and why the conflict exists, there might be useful conversation here.

Have you read the Hamas charter? I suggest you do.

My family were not living in Palestine from 1948?
We were not in Egypt, Jordan, Israel and Palestine after that?
You know my children were not born in the ME?

You know where one of my children is now?

Yemen is located in the southern end of the Arabian Penninsula and borders Saudi Arabia TJ the North of Oman - Oman where my family were not?

It is very significant to the ME what is happening in Yemen, and the world.

DM is reporting Israel has bombed a hospital killing 500+. Not sure if it is has been verified yet.

I don't think there will be a Gaza strip by the end of this. And once Iran / Hezbollah gets involved, the bloodbath will spread outside of Gaza.

But yes I did see the Vicar, Rabbi and Iman in Lambeth, London on the BBC.

In response to nomadmummy

Those countries are all quite differerent and there is a wide range of rights, diplomatic ties, political positions, propensity to get involved in wars etc amongst them.

Yemen is a civil war. A horrible one with more than 225,000 people dying likely from conflict or starvation or disease but it is much harder to get attention to a war happening within a country rather than across borders. The Israel / Palestinian one is probably one of the best known feuds in the world and has been a bubbling volcano for a century - and a fought over land for multiple centuries. It has a lot of global attention and many factors that pull people in.

@DavidSnow007 - I agree. These countries who give Hamas their support would give me and my family zero freedom. I am with Israel. This is a war. Freedom has its price.