To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

@BlurredEdges

Does the truth matter when being told by serious news organisations- yes.

If you don't agree with that then I'm afraid there's nothing to be gained by speaking with you further.

Unlike you, I'm not going to grade the way children are murdered
It's not a fucking scale of 1-10.

Truth matters.

Hamas committed atrocities

That is the truth, as it matters

I'd like to see some links to the retractions from reliable sources.

The Times are still reporting it:

‘Babies had their throats cut’: how Kfar Aza kibbutz massacre unfoldedEven the most hardened Israeli officers found it hard to take in what they were seeing in the devastation left by Hamas, Anshel Pfeffer reports

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kibbutz-israel-kfar-aza-massacre-gaza-strip-z7nz56rn9

And serious news organisations are reporting this as the truth.

And if you think the difference between 'murdered babies and cut their throats' and 'decapitated the babies they murdered' makes a moral difference, then there's nothing to be gained from talking to you at all.

@Spambod

Peoole do what they need to to survive.

If I lived there I wouldn't cross hammas.

Even so called democratic votes in such places would terrify people.

On a smaller scale we have work surveys, one even said what do we think of it rhe staff members and management.

Absolutely no one I know filled it out or filled it honestly because it wasn't anonymous!

No one will even on a a all scale at work no one wants to give the if true feedback.

More recently than that, his PCRS found a whopping 72% of Palestinians support forming MORE armed groups in West Bank.

And that 65% of Palestinians in West Bank support those groups NOT taking orders from the Palestinian Authority led by Abbas' Fatah who also have their own armed wing - Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade.

Indeed, NATO StratCom COE stated that whilst "Local Gazans are not necessarily ideologically linked with Hamas" it is true that "The Gazan defensive worldview is deeply engrained into the social fabric of the population. Children are raised to revile the enemy, i.e. Israel. There is limited critical thinking and access to information or to independent analysis. This significantly limits Israel’s ability to influence the Gazan population in such a way that it recognises the actual benefits of not being aligned with Hamas."

It acknowledges that the ability of Israel and Western States penetrating that social fabric is unlikely. Meaning children are highly likely to grow up to become adults ideologically linked with Hamas or other armed groups.

A minority of Gazans are opposed to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups.

A very sad, tragic reality. Best thing for ALL Palestinians and Israelis is for Hamas to be defeated in order to truly liberate them all from terrorism.

Well these people didn’t grow up in Surrey….

One of our best reporters, on a channel with no brief for Israel:

“Some reports suggest that some of the victims may have been decapitated but really such a horrific level of violence was used, the bodies are in such a bad condition that it’s hard to know if it’s true or not.”

https://x.com/Channel4News/status/1711817847800811810?s=20

Spokesman for Israeli PM confirms babies and toddlers de-capitated
CNN now

@BlurredEdges have you seen this particular gem of a tweet?

https://twitter.com/mck_beth/status/1712068912412500255

@EasternStandard and where did I suggest otherwise. How dare you.

But there's nothing to be gained from printing unsubstantiated untruths.

Hamas are evil murdering terrorists before this &'after this.

SomeCatFromJapan · Today 15:40

And? Have you got something more recent that 2007?

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220614-hamas-and-fatah-battle-for-gaza-following-hamass-landslide-election-victory/

After the arrival of the first Egyptian-trained fighters, and reports of torture and killing of Hamas operatives – about 250 Hamas members are said to have been killed in the first six months of 2007- Hamas launched its military operation against Fatah. The fighting was over in less than five days. It began with attacks on Fatah security buildings in and around Gaza City and in the southern town of Rafah. By 16 June, Hamas had captured every Fatah building, as well as Abbas’s official Gaza residence.

It's more detailed, but what I said. You're arguing against yourself!

@SomeCatFromJapan

x.com/dominicwaghorn/status/1712007786798694428?s=46&t=

x.com/glcarlstrom/status/1712028985964613785?s=46&t=CDaDBOo42AUxl1VZxDymlA

There is no real difference between murdering babies and how they are murdered. All are barbaric and unconscionable and pure evil

I just want truth in journalism & conversation.

It can have real life consequences as everyone knows.

That clip. That is how you do journalism.. accurately and if something is unconfirmed say so.

@beachcitygirl see my post at 16.59

I suppose that it's in the same way that most Russians support Putin. They've been fed propaganda from a young age, dissent is punished, and populist leaders encourage a narrative where there's an enemy to unite against.

As you say, peace cannot happen while Hamas exists upon this earth.

@beachcitygirl do you have any links to credible sources not just people's tweets?

What a bun-fight this thread has become. I was on another thread and have been watching with incredulity.

Not sure if anyone has referenced this site. https://www.btselem.org/

B'Tselem was established in February 1989 by a large group of Israeli lawyers, doctors and academics with the support of a lobby of ten members of Knesset. Its objective was to document human rights violations in the occupied territories (Gaza Strip and the West Bank), while being committed to the security and humanistic character of the State of Israel.

Their front page.
Israel’s regime of apartheid and occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations. B’Tselem strives to end this regime, as that is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

No doubt there'll be a wave of posters discrediting this site which is based in Israel.

And before ANYONE calls me a terrorist sympathizer, YES Israel has a right to exist, YES Israel has a right to defend itself.

Did you listen to it? The bodies of the babies and children were so badly mutilated that it's hard to say if they were decapitated or not.

I don't understand how you can hear that and respond as you have done.

The knots people will tie themselves in to avoid talking about the basic horror of what has happened.

As the days pass I'm hearing more and more from extended family and friends who have lost loved ones, or they are missing.

The extent of this massacre is only starting to become clear

@BlurredEdges I am so sorry. I hope that your friends and family are safe

And its very, very, very difficult for the West to break through that kind of propaganda because its so pervasive.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is definitely very, very different to the Russian-Ukrainian one.

Hamas and Russia are real threats to all along with Iran, China and North Korea.

The Taiwanese must be on HIGH alert and incredibly nervous now. That's two conflicts the West is potentially wrapped up in. China might spy an opportunity to invade Taiwan in the distraction.

I said it elsewhere. Maiming and killing infants and children and sharing footage online has turned out to be a bit of a Hamas PR faux pas.

Hamas sympathisers and other anti semites are trying to whitewash the depraved actions of Hamas. They adhere to a pretty sick ideology.