To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

Hamas really did shoot themselves in the foot. They routinely endanger their own children as human shields and use fake images of dead Palestinian children to garner global sympathy and promote anti semitism by portraying Israelis as a ruthless child killers. Yet here Hamas are not 'merely' killing children but savagely massacring them and flaunting their perverted actions on social media.

Unsurprisingly Hamas PR are now in damage control mode. We're told that only some Hamas wanted to brutalise and kidnap children and women, even babies in arms. #NotAllHamas. They're as dim as they are bigoted.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618045/Hamas-leaders-split-decision-kidnap-Israeli-women-children-one-faction-calling-captives-released-according-Middle-Eastern-intelligence-agencies.html

So if Hamas use fake images of dead children then so do the IDF? Right?

It has been widely reported (albeit hidden in small articles) by reputable publications that Israelis have burnt Palestinian children alive, forced them to drink petrol, shot them point blank in their face. This is pre last week. Just generally happening through the year. Another child death reported then nothing happens.

I'm going to post what I posted on another thread as its relevant here and I'm seeing the same racist anti- Palestinian tropes being trotted out.

There's a racist undercurrent running through these threads that all Palestinians are for Hamas and they are breeding and giving up their children to kill Jews.

This is being put out there so that when you see Israeli soliders killing children you will think in the back of your mind that they would have been jihadi's anyways so...

I bet Hamas are thinking the same about the Israeli citizens since they all have to do national service and be reservists, they are all potential soldiers so...

When does it end!

Look back over the last 4 years and see how many Israeli soldiers have gotten away will killing children, not innocent people in general, just look at the numbers of children.Look at how many children have been set on fire by settlers and see how they are not brought to justice by the Israeli criminal courts.

Where was the fucking outrage then?Where were these Israelis that felt sorry for the Palestinians?

Please provide evidence of these claims - facts, not made up stuff.

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/05/palestinian-boy-mohammed-abu-khdeir-burned-alive

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65812442

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_and_murder_of_Mohammed_Abu_Khdeir

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/05/palestinian-boy-mohammed-abu-khdeir-burned-alive

That dreadful killing was not carried out by the actual state of Israel though, it was a revenge killing by individuals.

What has just happened has been carried out by Hamas who are the elected leaders of Gaza (albeit their mandate expired some time ago given that there have been no elections since 2006).

These are therefore not comparable.

The toddler shot in the head in June this year was by the Israeli army.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65812442

As we can see, Hamas sympathisers are in damage control mode. Must be terrible to realise that your pet cause is advocating for a bunch of savage murderers who act like crazed zombies. Undoubtedly, there is violence against Palestinians from Israelis as well as Hamas and to untangle fake from real news is important. But the Israeli Army doesn't go around flaunting naked bleeding raped Palestinian women or brutalising Palestinian babies on camera. This simply doesn't happen. Israelis who overstep the mark are dealt with by the army and go to jail, they don't hand out sweets to their innocent children to glorify violence. The world has seen Hamas and their followers for what they are. They will have lost a lot of sympathy as a result.

Hamas are deranged. I don't judge ordinary Palestinians for having 4.4 children per woman as a pp suggested, I presume they don't have a choice, have no access to birth control and evidence based family planning. But Hamas and their cronies? Obstinate, violent, sick machos, who may be now realising that they bit off more than they can chew.

I cannot believe people are arguing over whether babies were beheaded or not. It’s sickening. They were murdered.

People may use these threads to post the atrocities that have occurred in the recent past. I didn’t see any outrage or action being taken when they happened. I didn’t see the threads with candles or people “hugging their babies closer tonight”.

It’s such a fucking joke, people do not actually care. They’re just wading in.

No Hamas support here, just pointing out the hypocrisy from people acting like the IDF are completely innocent and don't commit war crimes.

The only people I see doing damage control are the Israeli war crimes sympathisers who used to tell people that Israel was the only democracy in the Middle East but are now telling people that Hamas was democratically voted it as it now suits their rhetoric that the Palestinians brought this on themselves.

You try one form of propaganda and when it doesn't work you test out another one, well people are seeing the pattern and are calling you out for it.

@Glitterdavies I would not disagree that the IDF are frequently guilty of a callous disregard towards the safety of West Bank civilians.

Hamas were elected in 2006. There have been no elections since then. They were elected by the people of Gaza. Free and fair elections in Gaza would be great, but Hamas won't allow that. What's your point?

They do not go to jail, they don't even post a fake 'lessons will be learnt' bullshit post.

They get away with it and have been for years, nothing gets done.

People showing support for Palestine have been showing support every time there is a war crime and nothing happens, every time. They have been calling for peace for years.

Stop acting like support for Palestine is support for Hamas and scaring people into denying rights and sympathy for Palestinians, less they be called terrorist sympathisers or worse antisemitic.

They have been calling for peace for years.

Hamas does not want peace with Israel, Hamas wants Israel wiped off the map and all Jews dead, now we have seen, how they want to kill Jews. Palestinians are governed by these terrorists. Get rid of Hamas and start peace talks.

The point is this is being used to say that the Palestinians asked for this and deserve the retaliation they are going to recieve.

Prior to last week it was always known that those elections are not free and democratic and it was something that anti-Palestinians used to quote, "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East".

Now Palestinians have voted for Hamas and are in support and don't deserve sympathy.

Who said Hamas?

I said Palestinians supporters. Don't get the two confused.

Israel supporters want the same thing. Some of them have persistently taken action too.

Then there needs to be unity and joint protests asking for peace.

@MrsSkylerWhite

Yasmin Dewan BBC (works under Bowen)
Gregg Carlsom of the economist
Bethan McKernan the guardian
Sarah Leah Witson Executive Director MENA

All saying this story isn't true.

This is getting creepy now, it's like some want/need this to be true so they can justify the collective punishment of 2.2 million Palestinians

I'm sorry? Are you saying that the atrocities didn't happen? There is video made by the Hamas terrorists themselves. It's a fact. And its entirely in keeping with the warped ideology of hatred that Hamas perpetuates. Trying to deny its reality is DARVO tactics.

There are 300,000 reservists waiting to go in at the boarder and according to the Mail a top Israeli offical said they are going to make Gaza a tent city and bomb every building to the ground.

I think we know what's going to happen next.There will be a genocide of people and the world will sit by and say that this is Israel defending itself.

The number of Palestinians killed by the Israeli army is almost at the number that Hamas killed and they haven't even begun their ground offensive yet.The safe corridor for Gazans to leave has been bombed there is nowhere for them to go except await to die.

A lot of Palestinians will know that this is their last day alive and will probably being hugging their children and trying to distract them until it happens, so fucking sad.

Like being trapped in a sinking ship or a burning building.

There a peace peace marches in Tel Aviv and other Israeli cities all the time.

Sorry, @Glitterdavies but the more you post, the more obvious it becomes that you don’t know much about the conflict or the situation for Palestinians and Israelis today. It’s all supposition and presumption with you, and a blatant disregard for context.

@soddingspiderseason of course I'm not denying atrocities have happened.

I'm saying I've read reports from well respected sources saying this particular atrocity is unconfirmed.

Hamas have committed plenty atrocities & they get no sympathy from me. For any of it.

Unfortunately the blame lies with Hamas. Hamas supported by Iran and possibly Russia orchestrated this situation, not just in the last few days but the last few decades. They have Israel and Gaza exactly where they want, as does Iran. Remember Iran does not care about Sunni Muslims so for them the Gazans are collateral damage.

It is a shame that Israel has such a nationalist prime minister at the moment. There always are ways to influence and affect change trough other channels, including diplomacy, intelligence and psychology. But this is made much more difficult with Iran and Russia tinkering and Biden being a weak and hapless president.