DH Lost Job

[Lostjobstuff]

Looking for some help/support/advice from people who have gone through similar.

DH lost job I March. Was high up in a finance organization. Spent the summer enjoying time with our three children (I supported this). But has now declared he doesn’t want to go back into finance and spends his time coming up increasingly far fetched ‘business ideas’.

I am trying to be supportive but it looks like my own dreams of taking sometime off or slowing down to be with our 3 children is completely unattainable now.

Has anyone been in my situation? How did it work out? I think it would be different if he had a concrete plan to retrain in another industry, but it just seems like he spends his time grasping at straws.

Oh course he has equal rights. That's what we've spent decades fighting for.

I work at the same place as my husband doing the same job. We earn the same and I don't have to work any harder than he does for it. This isn't the 50s.

Women have spent decades fighting, but I don't think they've won yet? And my understanding is that - notwithstanding your own experience, which is great - women (especially mothers) are at a disadvantage in most careers.

I definitely see it differently to you then - because my husband absolutely did not make our babies! We agreed to have them, and I did the entirely of the labour involved in that.

That said, you're not wrong that it's probably sensible to plan as if he might not be around tomorrow. But life would have to change completely if that happened, whether I work or not.

But whatever. I do see that the OP needs to work while her husband is out of a job. I just don't think she should have to support him to not work if she doesn't want to. And while of course he shouldn't have to support her to not work if he doesn't want to, I think her case is stronger.

That's because you're viewing the situation through a sexist lens because you grew up in a society with traditional gender roles, as we all did but some of us reject them.

Or because I think growing and giving birth to and breastfeeding babies is a form of labour too?

I'm a firm believer in people taking out life insurance on their partner in case they dropped dead tomorrow 😄

Of course they are labour, but two years of labour per child isn't enough to carry you for the rest of your life.

I did that labour 4 years ago. I don't see it as a debt my husband owes me for the rest of his life. We've got another 30 years of working left each, do you seriously think 2 years of labour gets me out of the next 30 while he just has to carry on because he didn't do those two years!? Ridiculous!!

Since I stopped breastfeeding all parenting has been equal and whilst I was doing the child labour he was still working full time. So we've both worked equally until now, why am I suddenly entitled to a rest for the next 5 years but he's not?

I don't mean that it "gets you out of" anything. I mean, having babies does harm women's career prospects, and that should be part of a conversation about who carries more financial responsibility after having children.

And it's not just 2 years, a few times over. It's sequential - so for me, with more than 2 kids, it's getting up to a decade of that labour. The same decade my husband's been able to devote to moving into and progressing in a good career.

I believe in evolution. Feminism can no more undo evolution than gender identity ideology can undo our (evolved) sex.

Its normal for women to become more sensitive to the pain and hurt of others, especially children, when they are pregnant. Its nature's way of preparing them to attune to their own babies and to care for them, even when that is hard. Empathy and attunement are vital for successful parenting. I also believe that women sleep more lightly, or are somehow more sensitive to noise whilst sleeping, when they have young children so that they hear and wake when their children need them. That has certainly been my experience. And of course women have breasts and produce milk. I am sure there are many other evolved responses/biology in women for child rearing, especially for babies/ younger children.

I am sure men can and do care for babies and young children but I also don't doubt that evolution has fine tuned women to be more adapted to this than men. We are animals after all, and we've evolved our biology to fit our role in human reproduction.

It only harm's her career prospects if she returns part time or is the one taking all the leaves when the kids are sick. If the father pulls his weight at home and the mother works full time like always there is no more harm to her career than the children's fathers. It is completely possible for women and men to work and earn equal amounts after maternity leave has ended, just many women choose not to because they would rather be at home more. It's fine if they own that as a choice but to make out it was forced on them in incorrect, especially and many of them feel entitled to do so, as OP does and seemingly so do you because you were the one that was pregnant. Once pregnancy is over, parenting/warning can and should be equal, women will never achieve equality by expecting special treatment because they were pregnant at some point.

If he was high up in finance can he not open a consultancy biz doing fractional CFO/FD etc ? Can be very lucrative

I think you're implying there's far more "her choice" in these situations than there usually is. Women still face a lot more criticism than men for working FT after having children (how could she? She mustn't love her kids that much. Etc etc). Women are often in lower paid work to begin with - e.g. I worked in nurseries, my husband in a trade. He was out-earning me, long before the babies. It would have made no sense at all for him to take the time off to "pull his weight" at home with sick kids etc. And now, a decade in to pregnancies, maternity leaves, etc, I will never be able to earn equal to my husband or anywhere near it. The choice wasn't forced on me, and I never meant to imply it was, but it wasn't an equal footing for me and him just because "maternity leave has ended", and every subsequent maternity leave made it less equal. I find it amazing that it's a feminist position to just ignore this tbh, as if the fight has been won and now any inequalities in pay or career opportunities are just a result entitled women making bad choices. That sounds almost like men's rights activism to me...

@Lostjobstuff

Which country do you live in, OP?

Well, there probably is a bit of a double standard, but I'm not sure it's particularly relevant here.

OP has made her wish to step back from work and spend more time at home very clear. He's agreed to this and they've planned for it. She's continued working in a demanding job and contributing to their savings, presumably because they've agreed as a couple that it wouldn't be financially sensible for her to stop working just yet.

He, on the other hand, seems to have decided on a whim that he quite likes being at home and that OP should simply support this, without any prior discussion or agreement. He feels entitled to use their joint savings to finance this change of plan, seemingly without any concern for the impact on OP or the fact that he's potentially pulling the rug out from under a long-awaited and carefully planned career break. He presumably knows how upsetting this is likely to be for her, but seems quite happy to press ahead regardless.

If he'd come to OP saying that he's realised he'd also like to step back from work and wanted to work out together how they could make that happen, perhaps by both working less or taking less demanding jobs, I'd have a lot more sympathy. Instead, he's effectively decided unilaterally that his wife, who he knows has been looking forward to and planning for being a SAHM, will just have to carry on as the sole breadwinner.

I lost my job through redundancy last year. I don’t think I realised at the time how much it had affected me mentally. I am on my own with older children, and I had a savings buffer to tide me over for a bit. I’d suggest he also has a look at interim and NED positions while he figures out what’s next.

he needs not to make big rash investments while you have so many joint financial considerations- but if he can bootstrap a business and get some income via Interim or NED work that might provide some space for him to explore his ideas with less risk to the family finances.

Id just say it’s really tough losing your job- it can hit hard and for me getting knocked back a lot of times applying for things was really demoralising. Getting something temporary was really good for my morale and self esteem. He needs your support right now- not to blow your savings but just to come to terms with what’s happened- the figured for the future you had both imagined, and to find something that supports a lifestyle you can all be comfortable with.

@baobabsmoothie you have perfectly captured the situation. We agreed I would step back and planed for that and now the plan has changed.

I get life happens and I need to get over my feeling of ‘this isn’t fair’. Time to work together to get what we both want. But I will be making it clear him faffing around forever while I keep money coming in at the same clip is not an option.

@Lostjobstuff He's delusional if he thinks he will walk into another senior position.

He needs to be looking at entry level jobs with normal salaries.

But if you've chosen a low paid career you're never going to earn equal to your husband even if you never had any children. You were never going to earn equal to him anyway even if you did that job for 100 years so the children are irrelevant. You don't earn less because you had children. That's not a motherhood penalty, that's a career choice you made.

The gender pay gap statistics show that on average women and men earn equally until they have children. That demonstrates that women don't inherently earn less than men, they earn less than men after children because they choose to work less hours or easier jobs to spend more time with their kids. When a man wants to do that he is ripped to shreds for being lazy but apparently if a woman wants to do that it's fine. That is the double standard.

Why the hell would I care what other people think of me working full time as a mother? I don't believe for a minute mother's who choose not to work full time do so because they're worried of what other people think if them. A parents job is to provide. I am providing. I look far less favourably on women who don't provide for their children and expect their husband to do all the providing just because they were pregnant at some point so they've done their labour. That's it. Job done. Just had to enjoy nice slow days with the children now because you've done your bit. Of course the husband can't possibly slow down! He didn't have a pregnancy 5 years ago! How dare he! 🙄

Um, thousands??

Again with the "choice". as if we're all choosing from an equal place, with equal opportunities. I "chose" the only job I could get at the time - trades were absolutely not an option for me - and I have worked my way up from there, and I can assure you "the children" are not irrelevant to my current earning power.

You may not care what other people think of you, but many people do care. And right or wrong, what other people think matters - it affects how they treat you.

But my point is a bit less basic than fathers should "do all the providing just because the mother was pregnant at some point", which I think you must understand, so I get the sense you're intentionally misrepresenting it.

And while everyone argues, poor OP is still waiting for advice..

I'm not sure why you think you should be afforded the 'dream' of stepping back and taking more time with the kids and he shouldn't be? He's allowed to want it too.

You're only mid 40s, so I don't think working since you were 15 and being exhausted is much of a compelling reason really.

Obviously he doesn't get to make the unilateral decision that he definitely gets to be the one stepping back, but neither do you. If he now also wants to then it's up to the two of you to work out what they looks like together, and you have to accept that because of that you have to make a compromise on what you thought the future would look like.

Of course you chose your career. Unless you left school with no idea of what you wanted to do, no qualifications and no access to further education to attain a career that you wanted. That situation is a totally different ballgame and not one of sexism but one of a lack of opportunities.

I think this is a good response, and I can totally understand the feeling of "this isn't fair". I mentioned up thread - my husband's career change was great for us - so maybe this can work out really well for you all in the end. I really hope so.

Maybe your husband's confidence has been knocked by the redundancy and he's taking refuge in the idea of a business or being a SAHD, so if you can I don't know like big him up a bit as the first step maybe that would help too.