it's not a tiny minority is it

[noddyington]

I do not know any women who have not had something bad or intimidating happen to them in their lifetime. Whether that be cat calling, followed, talked down to, pushed out of spaces, pushed over for promotion, assaulted, stalked, raped or murdered.

I do not know any women who have not changed their behaviour to try and keep themselves safe. It might be walking with keys between their fingers, getting a taxi when they'd rather walk, covering their drink when they are at a bar, not responding when a guy intimidates/heckles at them because it's safer, run or jog in groups, don't wear headphones walking late a night.........

AIBU to say that it's not a tiny minority of men is it?

The latter.

I think it’s also very important to recognise that domestic violence against women is catastrophically high in many Muslim countries where there is no drinking.

a useful collection of referenced reports en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence

I was having this conversation with my 22 yo son. He disagreed. So i asked if he would be happy for his 12 year old sister to be left alone in locked room 100 times with a hundred different random men alone. He didn't say yes.

The chance of 1 in 100 woman sexually assaulting her isnt the same with 100 men. Even if all those 100 men was decent kind men, why take that risk? This is what men dont understand. The risk might be 1 in 10 or 1 in a hundred or 1 in 1000. As a women your alert to it. Whatever the number is. Because its not vanishingly rare.

I think pornography is a big part of the picture.

I think many men assume women have the same ‘feelings’ as men and are open to sex most of the time. I honestly don’t think anyone tells men that this isn’t the case. I agree aswell that most men think they are ‘better than’ women and this is enforced as they grow up as they are stronger, get things easier, and have more confidence than most women. I still occasionally am shocked at how confident my husband is, even when he literally has no idea about something or is in a completely new situation - I keep a bit quiet and feel like I don’t have something of value to say so best to say nothing, then he starts talking and I’m blown away by the arrogance… maybe that’s just me but I doubt it! I imagine at work he would come across as he knew something even in situations where he really doesn’t. I think women are also socialized to ‘be nice’ and overly considerate of other people. Whereas for men this is a nice to have extra which they will get compliments on…

Ridiculously naive reply here

I could list multiple instances and an actual sexual assault when I was 16 and he was a 60 odd year old man prying on young girls. I don’t want to start making a list as it would make my hate men more. Single and happy. Few decent men around. Yes there are some, but so many sleazes.

Comprehension fail!

I think it's a minority of men who have multiple victims over many decades which is why attacks are so common. Sentencing needs looking at, each paltry sentence shows that these crimes are not considered severe enough to warrant the general public being protected. Why do these offenders get second, third and fourth chances to offend again while their victims can't get a second chance not to be a victim?

Nor in mine

In my experience it is many men if not most...

I had a violent, misogynist father. I was inappropriately touched at school as a teenager by a boy. I experienced sexual assault as am adult from a so called male friend. And the usual cat calling, inappropriate comments in the street and men patronising in the workplace.

I have found the majority of the men I have met to be generally selfish, entitled with a sense of superiority. Porn and the 'manosphere' has also corrupted their views of sex and relationships.

I think one of the main issue is patriarchal societies and religions and the fact that for so long throughout history men have considered women as properties and inferior beings whose main role in life is to provide them with sex and kids (that they as men don't really need to care for as this is the woman's job).

Women have evolved and gained more rights and ambitions, but deep down men have not changed because women rights do not benefit them...

Thanks for finding the stats, Noddyngton. But I think the real numbers must be even higher than was ever reported. I’d never written or spoken about my experiences until very recently, shoving them out of my mind because they sickened me.

Counting only physical contact (not the many other forms of abuse or oppression), I remember being deliberately and frighteningly molested by strange men at least three times before I was 13.

After that I can’t even begin to count how often it happened. Rape, attempted rape, other sexual assaults, attempted murder, fingers jabbed excruciatingly into my breasts or buttocks by strangers passing in the street, attempts to knock me off my bike in traffic, a casual punch, spitting in my face, countless instances of casual invasive groping…

And that’s just physical contact, mostly by strangers. Not even counting the cat calls, verbal abuse, jobs and promotions given to less competent candidates because they’re male etc etc.

That’s just one woman’s experience. It’s too much and too often for me to believe it was all done by ‘a tiny minority’ of men.

To be fair, when I look at your list, pretty much every man I know has been through something bad like that too.

Men are usually the perps for sure. They victimize each other too. That said, the worst bullying I ever went through at work was at the hands of women. I've always had pretty fair treatment in the workplace from men, and I am no oil painting so it's not because they fancy me.

They don't

I thought you were being sarcastic.

I didnt mean a blanket ban; I meant tackling over drinking, culture, and alcoholism.

I agree with you here. It is like a cat playing with a mouse. It's what they do because they can. Because women historically in this country were homemakers and didn't go out to work, we have ended up with generations of men that didn't value women's thoughts and feelings. They also controlled the finances and felt in doing so that they could act however they wanted. Many women were completely controlled. I saw it a lot with my older family members back in the day. Opinions not listened to because "what would they know". Men have always belittled women. And yes, I have been groped, belittled and made to feel stupid by men but at the grand age of 60 there is no way I would accept this now. I have three sons and hopefully I have brought them up to respect women. I have to say however my DH has never once made me feel less than him so there are some men about who respect women. I don't know though if he would intervene if he saw something happening to a woman.

haha yes, ignore this :P

I have never been sexually assaulted by a man. I am aware that this probably puts me in a tiny minority, but there it is. I've been in many situations, especially when younger, where men could have "taken advantage" of me. It never happened. I have no idea why.

You’re right OP but most people won’t admit to it.

I read up on Bonobo apes recently and they’re very interesting. Bonobos are special because they are one of our closest living relatives, sharing about 98.7% of their DNA with humans, and they run a peaceful, female-led society that uses social bonding instead of violence to resolve conflict.

Bonobos are famous for using sexual interactions, physical contact, and sharing to relieve tension, defuse aggression, and bond across the group rather than fighting over resources.

Humans live in a patriarchal society which prioritises males. Bonobos live in a matriarchal society which prioritises, not females, but youngsters. It results in a more balanced society and the only recorded incident of a Bonobo killing another was when a male got violent with a youngster and the females killed him for it.

Food for thought.

I've recently started a sport that is self-defence/fighting. Only the men in my family ridicule it, and, I've noticed, feel the need to assert themselves physically when I show them the moves I am learning, and unnecessarily overpower me when I practice. These are demonstrably 'good men', who have never hit a woman. I also know they would do it to a man/eachother in the same situation.
My self-proclaimed feminist husband, who is actually very supportive of my new sport, has admitted he probably has a subconscious need to always feel physically dominant. I wasn't shocked because I could already sense it. I think a lot of the harassment 'in the wild' stems from this. It's far easier to physically dominate a woman, and it's the most basic show of dominance.
Where that need comes from re: females, I have mentioned before and still believe - boys are brought up to be 'not like a girl', as 'girls are inferior'.

Similar to @babyproblems I am sometimes taken aback by how much simpler life is for my DH. He has an inner sense of confidence that comes with natural entitlement. He assumes things will work out for him, because they always have done. He will state his opinion loudly even when it is wrong, he never doubts himself, or has to think of his safety, he hasn’t been bullied, attacked, sexually assaulted, threatened, scared walking home, groped in the street, raped.

Whereas I’ve been:

• sexually assaulted as a 15yr old until strangers stepped in to help
• raped by a stranger at 16
• raped by a boyfriend in my 20s
• groped and attacked by three men whilst jogging
• followed home in the dark
• sexually assaulted by a colleague (a ‘nice’ married man with a daughter and sensible Clark’s shoes)
• groped by a colleague (a taxi driver stepped in)
• had two grown up ‘nice and respectable’ CEO men (big names of industry) talk openly about my breast at dinner
• had my arse slapped at dinner
• had a man rub his erection against me on a packed tube
• been flashed in the middle of the day on the way to the supermarket
• been slapped in the face by a male family member and somehow taken the blame as a guilty party

I am not a vulnerable person, I grew up in a nice area with nice parents, I went to uni, have an excellent career, a big house, money for cabs, good friends etc etc. All the supposed safety nets for a good life and yet….its always there, always a risk assessment on the next possible threat, and always from men.

@ArabellaScott I thought you were being sarcastic.

No.

I didnt mean a blanket ban; I meant tackling over drinking, culture, and alcoholism.

The problem with trying to tackle over drinking specifically is that there will always be a large number of people who choose to ignore that and over drink anyway.

It's like with food - you can tell people not to eat too much, but so long as food is freely accessible, some of us fat gits will choose to over eat anyway.

In order to stop people becoming drunk, there would have to be some kind of "hard" restriction in place, rather than trying to influence behaviour.

I think you misunderstand stats.