it's not a tiny minority is it

[noddyington]

I do not know any women who have not had something bad or intimidating happen to them in their lifetime. Whether that be cat calling, followed, talked down to, pushed out of spaces, pushed over for promotion, assaulted, stalked, raped or murdered.

I do not know any women who have not changed their behaviour to try and keep themselves safe. It might be walking with keys between their fingers, getting a taxi when they'd rather walk, covering their drink when they are at a bar, not responding when a guy intimidates/heckles at them because it's safer, run or jog in groups, don't wear headphones walking late a night.........

AIBU to say that it's not a tiny minority of men is it?

So men are ~6x over-represented in crime stats in the UK, relative to women 19.4 arrests per 1000 people vs 3.3 arrests per 1000 people.

Depending on what source you use, Afghan immigrants are 7-22x over represented in the crime stats, after accounting for gender.

Words like "tiny minority" are hard, as people think of very different numbers when they hear the phrase "tiny minority".

This is so difficult. As others have said, as a woman, it’s that we do not know which man is dangerous or not, and who would take their chances.

I know and have met some amazing men, the ones that tell their friends they are out of line, the ones that know boundaries and the ones that would safely walk you home without trying anything. But the truth is, as women, we can’t take our chances.

Yep, I’ve had men do terrible stuff to me. I’ve also had friendships with guys that have been like brothers. Come over for a short catch up and leave.

I do hope we start seeing less assault and abuse towards women now that we are seeing more men being punished for their crimes.

I think there's a deep-rooted hatred of women in some men that we don't talk about enough.

I sometimes think it's similar to the resentment some people feel towards the wealthy. There's this strange dichotomy of simultaneously desiring what someone has while resenting them for possessing it.

Some men desire women, crave their attention, affection and bodies, yet seem to resent women for having the autonomy to decide who gets access to them. There's an underlying sense of entitlement, as though women owe them something simply for existing.

And when that entitlement collides with rejection, independence or a woman's refusal to be controlled, it can manifest as hostility, degradation, coercion and, in the most extreme cases, violence.

I think we sometimes look at crimes against women as a collection of isolated incidents, rather than acknowledging the wider culture of misogyny, resentment and entitlement that can underpin them.

Not every man hates women, obviously. But I think we're reluctant to confront just how deeply misogyny is embedded in society, and how dangerous it can become when women are viewed not as autonomous human beings, but as something men feel entitled to.

I have spent these last few days on here feeling really sad. So, so many women talking about their own experiences of sexual assault and rape. It has been truly horrifying.
The word triggering has been overused but on here there have been so many stories of women being truly triggered by this weeks events, it is heartbreaking to read.
And then I started to think about my own experiences, and felt lucky.
Can you believe that. I feel lucky because I haven’t been “properly” sexually assaulted or raped.
But, like the OP says, I walk in a certain way when alone, avoid a footpath near me which is badly lit at night. Recently a man in a pub spoke to me badly, I wanted to tell him to fuck off but he seemed quite aggressive so I smiled and placated him. Looking back I spent an awful lot of my time placating.
I wish I knew the answer.
In many ways we’ve come a long way, it is less obvious now (page 3 etc) in others so much worse as in Andrew Tate.

Testosterone is the status hormone. Men are obsessed with status and hierarchy. They can be remarkably obsequious - towards higher-status men.

Men are the obsequious sex.

They like to think all women are beneath them. Many of them actively and persistently seek to enforce that hierarchy.

To be honest I think it’s most men if not all men have acted in some way as per your original post!

These are not always men in women's lives but random men that you pass in the street.

No it's not. I've been sexually harassed in two separate workplaces (in hindsight it was assault/abuse on two occasions), had my drink spiked, found illegal pornography on a boyfriend's laptop (relationship ended immediately and police informed), been grabbed by the throat and threatened (as a child), and was coerced underage into my first sexual experiences.
I don't think my lifetime of experiences with men is particularly out of the ordinary.

Testosterone combined with stress hormones leads to violence - not testosterone alone.

It's not all men but it's an awful lot of them. Many, many men hate women.

I'm as confident as I can be that my longterm DP is a good man, I would not have had kids with him if I didn't think this but some of his comments on the latest cases tell me he has no fucking idea what it's like to be a woman.

I think you hit on something here.

Like men with fetish about being a woman only it's their male idea of what a woman is. They want their idea of being desired in a pornographic way not the reality of being a woman and being oppressed.

Their mothers.
One bad girlfriend.
Some men even hate their mum bc their dad left. Yep. They hate the one who stayed and raised them rather than the one who walked away.

Power.
They are more powerful than us whether it be physical strength or cultural hegemony and some powerful people abuse their power.

Not all men but most.

I honestly think if you put 100 men in a position where they could sexually assault a woman and they had a cast iron guarantee they would get away with it, the majority would.

Sounds awful and I have a son, brothers, lovely male friends etc but I do think the majority of men are basically awful.

The data shows otherwise. Around 7% of men have committed a violent crime, therefore around 93% have not.

You need to change your social circles. Do you really think the vast majority of car sales men hate women? The majority of male waiters want to rape women? The majority of hospital porters or builders or taxi driver or GPs or firefighters or business analysts or actuaries or shopkeepers or teachers objectify and despite women?

I saw a great clip of a conversation Trevor Noah had with a woman about the Man v Bear debate. Summed it up well.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/971475925788041/?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e&fs=e

The maths just doesn’t add up.

They don't. Since 2023, there have been approximately 820,000 reported sexual assaults of all kinds in the UK. Criminologists estimate that there is a "re-ofdending rate" of aprox 2 to 4, this means that one indivdual is responsible for up to four reported offences. A significant number of these offences take place in domestic relationships. Home Office counting rules mean that each incident is logged as a separate crime. So ten assaults by a partner in a relationship over a period of time is counted as 10 reported crimes.

The Home Office estimate that 60 -70% of reported offences are "one on many", meaning a single offenders, committing multiple separate offences. To put those numbers into context, approximately 300,000 of the 820,000 reported offences are different me. The remaining 500,000 are from repeat offenders. It's estimated that the total number of men reported to have committed sexual assaults on women is around 450,000.

There are just over 27 million adult men in the UK. If we assume offences are under reported, let's say the real number is twice that of the reported offences. Then, we are looking at just over 3% of the male population. Or to put it another way, 97% of men arent assaulting anyone, and reported offences related to 1.5% of the adult male population.

So your question should be, "why do 1.5% of men assault women"?

There were over 10 million theft offences reported during the same period. That's potentially 20% of the adult population. But there isn't an epidemic of theft and repeat offenders make up a significant number of those reported thefts.

We need to stop using phrases like "men" commit a particular type of crime, when we really mean that just 3% of them commit that crime. The other 97 or 98% who don't, those are our sons and fathers and husbands. And I don't think it's right to label them all for the behaviour of just a tiny minority.

The sexes are designed to be complementary, not adversaries.
We should work together to make the world better for both.

Do not let anyone divide you by spreading hatred of the opposite sex.

I agree with you. I am married to a good man, respectful, always treated me well etc. Critical of Weinstein, Epstein , Brand , Saville etc. But still sometimes objectifies me & women on tv etc. We’ve been together over 30 years & he thinks its compliment. I’ve pulled him up on occasion & he has agreed with me & been embarrassed about his comments. Testosterone definitely plays a part. I’m not dismissing men’s behaviour or saying they can’t help it but there’s definitely a hotmonal aspect that women don’t have to anyway nea the same extent.

“OK but you’re not typical” – gee, YOU DON’T SAY.

I haven’t fucking “circumscribed my own life.” I don’t enjoy bars or loud parties because I have sensory issues. I’ve travelled overseas multiple times. As for “have a career and some independence,” I have a fucking law license, so maybe don’t assume you know everything about someone from a few sentences on Mumsnet.

But that is based on reported offences. I never reported any of the men who groped me in nightclubs, or the older male colleague who made sexually suggestive remarks to me at work.

The overwhelming majority of women have experienced some kind of sexual harassment/assault, so to say only 3% or men actually perpetrate the offences just doesn’t add up.

Being a bystander while your mate harasses a women at a bar, or makes crass remarks about women means you (generic ‘you’) are a part of the problem too.

Saying most people convicted of domestic abuse are men, isn’t the same as saying most men are abusive.

Even if most women report experiencing sexual harassment and/or assault at some point in their life, the perpetrators could still be a minority of men.

For example, this Ministry of Justice report finds only 24% of males between age 10 and 52 (in 2006) were estimated to have had at least one criminal conviction. That’s less than a quarter.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7c98db40f0b65b3de09ea1/criminal-histories-bulletin.pdf

You are lucky. My Dh is a good 'un but most men I meet in my day to day life are detestable and I have had some bosses that should be in jail for things they have done.

The saying, "It's not all men but it's always men" is correct and it's bloody sickening. I wish there was a continent that just women of all colours and creeds could occupy so we can all just relax and be happy.

@EdithBond

’only’ 24%, ‘only’ a quarter? Surely that’s a shockingly high percentage even considering it’s all crimes? Particularly considering its convictions, I’m sure we can agree that many more crimes are committed than convicted.

I would never use ‘only’ to describe those statistics.