To think excluding SEN child

[bronteemily]

From birthday parties is often reasonable?
Allow me to explain further.

I work in reception year in a primary school and there have been 2 party invites given out this October. One of the SEN children has not received an invitation to either and their mum has been in to complain. We cannot dictate that any child must be invited to something outside of school anyway however without revealing this to the parent, I completely understand why this child hasn’t been invited.

From the children’s perspective, SEN child is very disruptive. Climbs on tables and shouts swear words in the middle of learning time. They kick and hit out at anyone in reach when being removed from the classroom. They scream as loud as possible throughout the day and actively seek out to upset others by ruining their pictures, things they’ve built or just intentionally hitting unprovoked.

Whilst we are working on managing these behaviours and figuring out what strategies will work, the other children are experiencing all of this whilst being only a few months into their first ever school year.

AIBU to think that on their special party day they shouldn’t have to include a child they’re scared of and that unsettles them daily at school? Inclusion is forced upon them at school but they deserve a birthday without having to compromise. They are only 4.

That’s really hard. I have two autistic children and certainly wouldn’t expect them to be invited anywhere if they were behaving like that, but it is heartbreaking when they’re left out of things.

YANBU, we never invited whole class to DC parties, often due to cost and space, but we would have not invited children who were disruptive, unkind, bullies etc

This is exactly why it’s inappropriate for schools to get involved in handing out party invitations.

I work in a school and I do agree to an extent with you OP. But also if these children are never exposed to these places then how will they ever know how to behave. If this is their behaviour then the parent of that child might say they don’t want to attend anyway due to such behaviour. It’s very difficult.

The only way for a school to deal with this stuff is a blanket ban on party invites being given out at school.

They actually weren’t handed out from school but the mum still somehow caught wind of the parties.

Why on earth do parents think the responsibility is on the school to manage social lives of children

Aren't teachers busy enough?

I don't think they are been unreasonable given the behaviour. My DD10 has a friend with SEN that she enjoys playing with 1 on 1 outside of school. SEN child isn't really part of her friendship group in school as they really lash out at others during playtime (I think they find too many kids overwhelming). For my DDs past parties, we haven't invited them and her parents have understood why. We have done something separate with them like had them over for a playdate instead which seems to work well.

Parents can take children to soft play or other activities at any point they choose. I really don’t believe a child birthday that happens once a year for them is the appropriate time for social exposure.

I can understand mum of the child with SEN being upset, but birthday party arrangements/invites have nothing to do with the school and I have no idea why she has come to you to complain. What does she think you can do?

I also think that if a SEN child upsets, frightens or hurts other children, even though there are reasons for their behaviour, it is understandable that the children would not choose to spend time with them outside of school and their parents might not wish to have them attend a party either.

Inclusion is a good principle to have, but it has to be balanced against the needs of non-SEN children too. It should not be forced- why would it be appropriate to force a child to spend time with a child who upsets them or frighten them at their own birthday party?

I think it’s fine for children to decide who they do or don’t want to invite.

my son has Sen and can be very disruptive and parties will get him very over stimulated and I completely understand why people might not want to have that at their party. I think he’s been to 1 party in the last 2 years?

honestly, I think I find it more upsetting than he does! I feel really sad that he doesn’t have friends or get to enjoy some things whereas he is mostly oblivious to it

I’d absolutely never confront parents or get school involved.

I used to find children’s parties incredibly stressful. Responsibility for all those kids at once! No way in hell I’d invite a child who was going to be disruptive, potentially lashing out and would ruin it for my child.
No doubt some would see me as a monster for that view. I’m not, I’d feel very sorry for the child. But parents have enough to deal with it out expecting them to be able to accommodate SEN behaviour within a bunch of children they barely know

It was the same in one of DC‘s classes. It was manageable at school as teachers were in charge, but the parents just looked the other way when the child was extremely disruptive and violent at parties.

Parties went under the radar after that. The parent did complain to the head that they believed their child was being left out of parties, but nothing came of it. No invites were handed out in school or on group WhatsApp.

In which case she needs to be told that school can’t get involved in this sort of thing. I doubt she has an easy time caring for this child by the sound of it, so I would hope this sort of thing would be handled sensitively by school staff.

I guess the thing is that not all SEN children behave like this. Before we knew my son was autistic we often had his friend around who is also autistic and he didn't behave at all like the boy you have described and neither did my son tbh. If it's about behavior for not inviting him then that's different.

YANBU - I’m a teacher in Australia so a slightly different system but still as much as it’s hard to watch some SEN parents need many voices and angles to help them see their child is screaming out for help.

Before anyone comes at me I’m a SEN parent myself and it’s shit but I see so many parents not wanting to see yet the reality of who their child is in social situations - it’s really heartbreaking to watch

Does she know exactly what behaviour is going on at school and how much he’s struggling? Presumably you’re trying to work with her to improve it. So if she knows she can be upset he’s not included in parties but she can’t be surprised.

The child in my DD’s class who’s like this, and it hasn’t improved over a couple of years he’s just got bigger and stronger, has a mum who looks she like couldn’t give a shit about it and I said on here before that DD ended up inviting far fewer of her friends to her last party than she’d have liked because we couldn’t possibly have invited him and we didn’t want it to be obvious. I also knew loads of kids she likes wouldn’t have come if we’d invited him.

If it's about behavior for not inviting him then that's different.

I think it makes it clear that’s exactly the reason.

I had a pretty high threshold for not inviting classmates to whole class parties. When DC2 gave me a banned list for their 5th birthday party I decided against it as these kids had just annoyed them a bit and I didn't think they'd do any harm at a soft play party. On the other hand if my DC was genuinely scared or had been seriously hurt by other kids I'd have made a different decision.

Some parties have more potential hazards or are very dependent on instructions being followed. Safety has to come first and I'd be very reluctant to invite a child that was unlikely to cope.

It's shit for the families of the excluded kids but some parties won't be appropriate for them. I don't see how complaining to the school will help.

Massively disagree with "often" in your first sentence. Loads of children have SEN. Many of these children enjoy parties and aren't disruptive. My own children are all Autustic, all very anxious and much better behaved than average in school for example. On a case by case basis, whether or not the child has SEN, if their behaviour is likely to spoil a party then it's ok not to invite them.

Separately, this child isn't coping in mainstream and I hope an EHCNA is in progress.

I understand it must be heartbreaking for the parents of these kids to know they’ve been excluded. However it’s about the child’s behaviour, not necessarily the fact that they have SEN. Plenty of SEN kids don’t act out like as described in the OP.

if these children are never exposed to these places then how will they ever know how to behave.
Nobody other than the children’s parents has a responsibility to provide a venue or experience (or volunteer their own child as a punchbag), in order to expose or test out their children’s behaviour, especially if that behaviour involves physically attacking other kids as described in the OP.

YANBU

We had young children that started refusing to come to school themselves because of a couple of children like this in their class. They were terrified of them, the biting, the hitting, the hair pulling, the destroying of their things etc Teachers and support staff can only do so much ... too many needs, not enough grown ups. And no money for more grown ups, assuming they'd stay. School staff turnover is increasing because of these issues, and TAs are better paid to work at grocery stores, plus discounts, where they're not physically abused day in and day out.

I don't think a lot of people realise that mainstreaming children who really need to be in a specialist setting (and no spaces are available; they linger on waiting lists) is affecting the education of the other children.

The fact that mum has come in to complain rather than recognising that his behaviour is party of the issue tells a lot.

I imagine that she expects to drop him off at the party and leave when he really needs a parent there to supervise him.

We’re not even half way through the first term of school and she’s probably already made it clear to many of the parents that jimmy is disabled and his behaviour should be accommodated and accepted by all.

I have 2 boys with autism (and adhd) and always offered to stay with them at parties. As they got older I told them that they were autistic but they could choose whether to be a dick.

Yanbu there’s no way I’d invite a child to my DDs birthday party if they were violent and swearing in class, no matter the reason. I don’t think any child should have to be subject to that in school, they have the right to be safe and swearing is not appropriate language for 5 year olds to be hearing.

It’s not the responsibility of other children and their parents to provide those opportunities.