To think excluding SEN child

[bronteemily]

From birthday parties is often reasonable?
Allow me to explain further.

I work in reception year in a primary school and there have been 2 party invites given out this October. One of the SEN children has not received an invitation to either and their mum has been in to complain. We cannot dictate that any child must be invited to something outside of school anyway however without revealing this to the parent, I completely understand why this child hasn’t been invited.

From the children’s perspective, SEN child is very disruptive. Climbs on tables and shouts swear words in the middle of learning time. They kick and hit out at anyone in reach when being removed from the classroom. They scream as loud as possible throughout the day and actively seek out to upset others by ruining their pictures, things they’ve built or just intentionally hitting unprovoked.

Whilst we are working on managing these behaviours and figuring out what strategies will work, the other children are experiencing all of this whilst being only a few months into their first ever school year.

AIBU to think that on their special party day they shouldn’t have to include a child they’re scared of and that unsettles them daily at school? Inclusion is forced upon them at school but they deserve a birthday without having to compromise. They are only 4.

I would not invite anyone who may ruin my child’s party or who hurts them at school, SEN or not.

Chances are this child would struggle at a birthday party anyway.

Has this child invited the class to their party?

There were children in our kid’s classes we would never invite to parties, SEN or no SEN, didn’t matter it was the behaviour.

Perhaps one of the inviting parents will point that out to mum.

This makes me very grateful that in my LA the specialist provsion appears to better than most
We have two special needs primary schools one for childrent with moderate to severe learning disabillities and autism and one for children with severe to profound learning didabillties and autism
And two special needs high schools for the same
We also have severel autism hubs in mainstream schools
And PRU s
I have also noticed SEMH schools popping up.

I hate whole class invites and I’m always happy when that approach ends, typically around year 2. It’s just annoying to get an invitation to a party when your child has never even spoken to theirs.

I have a DS with autism. He isn’t disruptive in the way you mention but he also doesn’t act in the usual way socially. We took him to one party in reception and it was a disaster. He was running around, trying to constantly climb on the stage etc. We left after an hour, apologised to the mum obviously. Didn’t bother again.

The issue is they’re never softplay parties anymore, it seems to have gone out of vogue and now everyone is having old school parties with entertainment at a community centre or whatever. He doesn’t want to join in with the party games in a usual manner so it doesn’t work.

I understand why they’d leave this child out. He doesn’t just want to run around like my DS, he’s actually harming the children and destroying their work. It’s still quite sad for him if he’s literally the only child excluded…

Years ago I worked with SEN children outside school time taking them to brownies, youth club etc or just giving their parents a break. One family I worked with the child had aggressive/disruptive behaviour and went to a special school, his father was a headmaster in an ordinary primary school. I asked the father whether he thought SEN children were better being in special schools or ordinary schools and without hesitation he said special schools. Some children who only have mild behaviour issues can be managed but I feel children with disruptive behaviour shouldn’t be mixed with NT children- it’s unfair on the teacher and the NT children trying to learn.
I knew a family and their SEN daughter went to the school my DC went to and the other children were all scared of her. Her parents didn’t want to admit the problem, but eventually did move her to a more appropriate school. Burying you head in the sand doesn’t make the issue go away

Well the children are exposed to school life every day and they still behave the same way every day.

I also generally don’t agree with this “if a child is never exposed to something they will never learn how to behave there” thing. It’s normally said when children are running about a restaurant screaming or similar. Apparently all children need to be taken to restaurants to understand how to behave at them. Which is rubbish. I can guarantee you that if you took a 7 year old with no SEN and standard language ability to a restaurant who had never been before and explained that you do not scream and run about they would understand just fine. I didn’t go on an aeroplane until I was 8. I understood just fine how to behave on it.

If you take a 2 year old to a restaurant and they scream and run about no amount of “exposure” at 2 will help. They just do not have the ability to understand yet. Wait a few years and they will regardless of whether they have regular “exposure” to restaurants.

I think if they were the only one not invited and you had given them out, then parent would have been reasonable to talk to you.

I also think if the parent had come in to express concern about their child's behaviour which was causing them not to be invited then that would also have been a good reason to be wanting to speak to you.

I don't think a child should have to invite any child that makes them uncomfortable at their party. I'm uncomfortable with that happening when it is only one child being missed out, but I'm not sure that should be the case - often the children who don't get many parties are the ones who will be dropped to make sure the one doesn't feel left out, leaving those who have lots of parties anyway.

I have 3 dc. Dc1 is the example of the child who always wanted to do what was right and hated disruption and found misbehaviour really stressful.
Dc3 has ASD and ADHD and was exactly the sort of child who dd1 avoided like the plague.
Dc2 loved the excitement of behaviour like dc3 while not getting involved.

So dc1 would not have wanted dc3 and dc2 would have definitely wanted dc3 at their party.

Dc3 would have probably hated both parties as they couldn't cope with the sensory overload too. There were a number of invitations that I turned down in year R because I knew they would just get so hyped up in the first 10 minutes that they'd be a pain for the next 90 minutes.

In year 1 upwards, if I knew the parent well enough, I'd sometimes ask if it was okay to bring dc3 late so they got some of the play time, that I knew they could cope with and then they behaved beautifully. If it was a quieter party (eg not soft play) then often they could cope with a longer party but I would ask the parent if it was okay to stay (parents didn't stay from about 4yo upwards) so I could remove for a 5 minute calming break or fully from the party if necessary.
I only once had to remove fully from the party (balloons popping sent them over the edge) and I did offer to pay for their place at the party (host refused and we're still good friends)

So I totally agree with parents of children choosing not to invite a child because of their behaviour. I'm less keen on it from parents who make assumptions on ability with physical disability - because ime they're often wrong. DD2 had a couple of parties where she wasn't invited because she "couldn't cope" with the activity (she's missing her hand) and they were both times things she actually did rather well with no extra assistance needed.

I feel really strongly that kids have a right to feel safe at school and in normal social situations, and no one's needs overrides that.

My DD2 has behavioural issues. She is in many ways a very funny, lovely child - but she has a "Darryl Rivers temper" and doesn't control her anger appropriately.

We work closely with the school and they make helpful accommodations like allowing her to sit at her own desk instead of a big table and so on.

Nonethless, I know she acts out and has hit others in the past. I have multiple times been approached by other parents about her behaviour. I do not blame them - they have a right to say if their children are being hurt.

DD2 gets invited to way less parties than her siblings and she has twice in the last year been asked to go home from another child's house. Of course I am sad when this happens, but why would I shoot the messenger by blaming the other parent?

Moments like this can help us reflect together on her behaviour, which she needs to do. "I know you want to play with Emily but her mummy says not till after Christmas because she needs to know you won't hit or shout even if you feel angry."

It's just part of her journey - sadly.

I think if someone makes the choice to have a whole class party then the invites need to go to the whole class. Not the whole class -1 which frankly seems very mean and exclusionary.

Nobody HAS to do a whole class party. We never have.

If the child has no ability to manage their behaviour at all then mainstream isn’t the right setting for them. Does the parent know how the child behaves in class? I hope you tell them what you wrote here.
No one wants a bully at their party - Sen or not.

We always took the stance that “whole class party” meant just that, our dcs had to invite the whole class, but if they didn’t want that, we went with “less than half”, so you could have a party for say, 12 class friends but once you got to more than half have been invited, everyone is. (Sometimes we did less than half from class and then had additional children like friends from beavers/cubs or swimming lessons etc).

I do think it’s unfair, however it sounds like it’s unfair on everyone, including this little child, that he’s in this class. We need more specialist provision.

There was a child in my sons reception class who was like this. A special school place had been offered which they were determined not to accept. He hurt several children & teachers during the year, and the children witnessed him destroying school property, defecating on the classroom floor and smearing.
He was not invited to parties and imho this was reasonable. Notwithstanding the impact his behaviour had on his classmates, he clearly would not have coped.

We have it at the moment in my DCs class, there is a girl on a pathway for Autism diagnosis and their class teacher cannot handle the situation appropriately. It means my child comes home upset about how frequently and how loudly the teacher shouts at this girl. The little girl absolutely deserves better and to have a teacher who can help her learn and grow in all the ways she needs and not just be told off and shouted at all the time. I really feel for them.

Just to pick up on this, it does sound like the child’s issues are way more than lack of exposure/opportunities to learn appropriate behaviour. that reads like the parents of the SEN child are being blamed for failing to properly socialise /teach their child how to behave, but with many children, all the exposure to situations and careful training in the world won’t make them be able to control their emotions and behave appropriately.

Been into the school to complain that her kid hasn’t been invited? I’ve heard it all now. Talk about entitled. Surely she must know the kid is a disruptive bully. What is going on in schools now baffles me.

You're not excluding a child because off sen You're excluding them because their a brat i know lots of kids with sen and they act perfectly well.

My son is autistic. He isn’t disruptive in school but he can get overwhelmed easily. I’ve had parents who just straight up don’t invite him, but I’ve also had parents reach out and say “hay would he enjoy XYZ party?” I really appreciate that because a lot of the time the answer is hell no, he would hate that. Generally I will invite said child round for a play date and get them some cake or treats so he can have a “party experience” that suits him, other kid is always happy because they get a treat and a small gift.

I also don’t invite the kid who battered my son to anything, because he battered him.. I know he has SEN, but that’s irrelevant really. I don’t expect any of my kids to have children who harm them at their parties SEN or no SEN - just like I don’t expect parents to have calm quiet parties to accommodate my son.

We always took the stance that “whole class party” meant just that, our dcs had to invite the whole class, but if they didn’t want that, we went with “less than half”, so you could have a party for say, 12 class friends but once you got to more than half have been invited, everyone is

We do this too. But it's easy to have this rule if you've never had to face one specific problem child. In dc's classes there have never been any kids at the extreme end of behaviour or bullying or whatever. Just ones they don't play with or have had minor/normal fallings out with, so all get invited.

In a situation like the op describes, if my dc wanted a whole class party then I would allow it and simply leave out the aggressive child, SEN or not.

My children were encouraged to only invite children who were nice to them and actively encouraged not to ask the mean children. Leaving the mean, nasty bullies out of a special event like their birthday party is sometimes the only power a child has. Perhaps it will make the child and their parents question the reasons why ?
Not every mean nasty child had Sen either. Some, especially little girls are the ‘queen bee’ type trying to control everyone else.

They don't have to be invited to everything - but to hold an all class party and exclude one or two individuals is absolute scumbag behaviour. As a parent you have to go small, just a few close friends doing a specific activity, or accept the chaos that comes with a bigger celebration. I can't believe anyone in their right mind would defend excluding one or two named individuals from a large party. It's a form of bullying.

I am not inviting a child to my son’s birthday party coming up because he is violent, has been violent to my son and this child and his brother bullied and assaulted my sons friend in the toilets. I actually don’t know if he has SEN or is just violent but I just can’t manage that behaviour and my son asked not to invite him. I have seen him physically attack children and the parents do nothing so I can’t even rely on them to step in. He is going to be to only boy not invited but invites will be sent out individually over text so will do everything to try not to make a big deal out of it but absolutely draw the line at violent behaviour.

It’s not scummy behaviour to leave the bullies out. I would leave the bullies out of a class party and give zero fucks. Perhaps they will learn that bad behaviour means you don’t get invited to the parties of the children you bully.

We invite the whole class. Every kid deserve a chance to be included.

I am a Girl Guide leader and DH a Scout leader.
We invite two other leaders from our groups to do 1:1 for children with extra needs. Guides/scouts leaders are highly qqualifiedand trained to handle SEN and brat children.

We pay back attending their childrens' class parties.

I would say that was always the rule at DC’s school, until the particular child caused so many issues at parties…

Children shouldn’t have to invite children who hurt them, nor should others in the class have to miss out to mitigate it.