To think MIL and SIL shouldn’t stop DD from caring about her appearance?

[theandl]

My MIL and SIL are quite different to me. They’re very much “looks are the least interesting thing about you” people and tend to look down on women who wear makeup, make an effort with clothes etc. They’re also very much of the “go on, have another piece of bread/pudding” school of eating and will make comments if anyone says no to dessert even when full.

I’m not particularly obsessed with looks but I do take pride in my appearance. I exercise, try to keep my weight fairly stable, wear makeup, make an effort with my clothes etc. I have a good job, 3 kids, went to Oxford, lots of hobbies, travel etc, so it’s not as though my appearance is my entire personality, but I do like looking nice. Mainly for myself rather than anyone else but also I guess my daughter so she’s not embarrassed to go to her mum by the school gates.

My DD is 7 and she’s quite similar to me in that respect. She loves choosing her outfits, doing her hair, pretty dresses, lip balm etc. She’s also bright, funny, loves reading and drawing, does gymnastics and is generally a lovely kid. She just likes pretty things and likes looking nice. Like many little girls I guess she copies me, her mum.

Recently MIL and SIL have started making little comments about it and it’s really starting to get to me. Things like “are we going through the whole wardrobe before we leave?”, “who are you trying to impress?” and “you know nobody really cares what you’re wearing, don’t you?”

The other day DD came downstairs in a new dress she’d picked out and clearly looked very happy with herself, thought she looked nice. SIL laughed and said something like “honestly, you are obsessed with looking pretty. It’s much more important to be clever.” DD just said “I am clever.” And that’s the bit that’s really got to me. I genuinely don’t care what they think about me. If they think I’m too interested in my appearance then fine, I’m an adult and can deal with it. But she’s 7. I don’t think adults need to be making comments to a 7yo about being vain or caring too much about how she looks.

Equally if she’s full and doesn’t want cake or another piece of lasagne, she’ll say “no thank you”, which I think is healthy. MIL will act all offended, as to them not finishing everything that someone has cooked is rude. By which I mean, if let’s say 10 portions of lasagne were cooked for 6 people and the surplus 4 were unfinished, it would be rude for people to say “no thank you” after they had eaten their original full portion and finished everything on their plate, just saying no to seconds.

Obviously I tell her that being kind, funny, clever, brave etc is much more important than being pretty. But I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with her liking dresses and doing her hair and wanting to look nice, twirling in front of the mirror and enjoying how she looks. They’re not mutually exclusive. I’ve told them to knock it off and they think I’m being too sensitive and that it’s only teasing. Other times they say that looks shouldn’t be something we think about at all but… people do think about looks, it’s just life!

Seven year olds should not be wearing makeup. Picking out your clothes and liking how you look is fine.

I still bet most on here would rather look like a fitness/beauty influencer than a fat pride influencer!

If someone wants it to be, then yes.

They are performative bohemians. They downplay making an effort but judge harshly on those who do, so it's not that they don't care it's that they think you and your daughter should conform to their standards.

Fully agree with this. They sound quite obsessed.

I’m glad your dd said “I am clever”. . she can absolutely be both.

Yes, it was a very neat comeback and I am glad the child defended herself. Clever girl :)

Yes, I'd say there is definitely an element of envy in some of the comments both here and in the OPs family.

There aren't many influencers I'd aspire to be like tbh, but I wouldn't mind being a stone lighter and having less wrinkles 😂

And yes, if I had to pick one or the other it would definitely be the fitness influencer over the fatness one!

No. Not at 7 years old.
But I agree they shouldn’t be making those comments to your DD.

You and your in-laws are at opposite extremes. You care far too much about how you present yourself, as reflected in your daughter's self-consciousness about her appearance, and your in-laws seem to have an unhealthy attitude regards to food. They need to stop pressing food on your child when she's full, and you could probably do with relaxing when it comes to your appearance, as obviously it's rubbing off on your daughter.

People can take pride in whatever they want, we are all individuals.
You want to take pride in your appearance, fine.
It doesn't matter at all to you, fine.
The problem is when others think they get a say in what should matter to others.

Nope. There is not a single word in the OPs posts to say her daughter is self conscious about her appearance. She has 3 kids, and the daughter is the only one where it's mentioned that she likes to dress up, like her mum does.

If I am wrong, quote me the exact words that prove your claim. No inferences, word for word.

I remember thinking in year one (so 6/7) how glamorous my friend’s mum was because she always came straight from work and dressed in expensive suits with hair done etc. Kids definitely notice.

Focus on attributes children can develop, hardworking, being generous, helpful etc Pretty and clever? I would never comment on either of these things.

Well, aren't you just a l̶i̶a̶r̶ perfect angel, the patron saint of motherhood. Watch you don't knock your halo off walking through doors now.

I said to my daughter once on a Parent’s Night, “I don’t look like other mums.” Although, I had tried to, I still felt somehow inadequate. But my daughter’s response was, “No, thank God.” I wasn’t wearing anything loud or tight or cropped or bizarre. But even if I had been, my daughter would not have been embarrassed. I love that about her. We both like to look nice and well groomed, but unless it’s an occasion, we don’t dress to impress. We wear what we look good in that is also comfortable. Neither I, nor my mum, or DH would push my children to eat more than they are comfortable with. We are all okay with that.

They sound vicious and goading (of a 7yr old for goodness sake) but dress it up as being chill and relaxed. They’re not chill at all. They’re obsessed but have no standards themselves. I would definitely have a word with them to ask for the commentary to stop

I think conditioning girls to need to wear pretty rather than comfortable clothes is wrong. Yes not looking like stig of the dump is good. Neat and comfortable is what we should be gunning for at 7.

“None of us get dressed up to sit on the sofa”

It’s not necessarily about getting ‘dressed up’ but because I am into aesthetics, I do indeed think about what I wear on the sofa, even when nobody is visiting. For example, I have a range of cashmere loungewear in different colours that I tend to wear for ‘sitting on the sofa’ and I wouldn’t dream of wearing a pink top with blue bottoms - it would genuinely irritate me! I realise I might be an extreme example - I also coordinate my socks and slippers to my loungewear but my point is that is just the way I am and the way I have always been, since below the age of 7. And for what it’s worth, my mum was not at all interested in aesthetics. People are different. As for your broader point about women being eye candy, I am a successful, professional woman who always looks well presented, but I do not look like I’ve been playing dress up for 2 hours and nobody in my field (financial services/law in London) wears stilettos anymore. This went out at least 10 years ago, which I agree is no bad thing.

I think it's concerning that we live in a society where wearing our bodies and skin naturally is perceived as not making an effort. I'm not going to turn up to the office in a tracksuit, but I also shouldn't have to wear makeup for people to think I'm putting effort in.

Both sides of this OP are unhealthy. Don't force people to eat food they don't want. Don't comment on people's beauty. But also don't put weight on appearances. We're all unique humans, being brainwashed into thinking we should all meet the same beauty standards.

Your MIL and SIL sound unpleasant, but to be honest no one ever really admits to being obsessed with their looks. I would think 7 is young to be very interested in how you look- but every child is different.
I think both sides of this argument may have a point- I'm not sure snapping back "I am clever" when you are only 7 is normal either.

Again you are putting " well presented" and " professional" together.

I think many people here have missed your point and held onto one or two of your sentences in a rather negative way.

It’s ok to want to look nice and care about your appearance. It’s ok to not value that as highly. It’s ok to have interests and education that you strive for and engage in, and it’s ok to not have those too.

However, to answer your actual question and thoughts, the way your MIL & SIL are approaching this with your daughter seems passive aggressive and triggered by their own issues which they are projecting onto her, which is not ok. The tone behind the comments sounds belittling and unkind, and the subtleties of those comments over time on a child does not disappear, it can actually barb quite deeply and become an inner critic voice that may show up in later years in a way she will need to unpick.

OP is not saying making an effort on appearance is the best way or the only way, but it’s important to her (as are the other factors she mentioned) and as is the norm, children might also enjoy those things that are modelled.

As others have suggested, try nipping this in the bud with the in-laws when they make comments using phrases like “oh, we don’t make unkind comments about what people look like” or “I’d prefer you keep negative comments to yourself”.

We have a 6yo who would change their outfit 10 times a day if they could, they just love experimenting with clothes and how it fits/feels. Our teens don’t. Neither are right/wrong but just what they’re exploring now as they grow and develop. One teen used to emulate make up with face paints as a 6yo, now barely wears any. The other wasn’t interested and now has more products than a Boots warehouse.

Trust your gut. You know yourself and your family, and if it feels like a barb, do something about it. If you feel something you do has a positive/negative effect on your DD, explore that too with yourself.

Oh, I’m sure it makes you sad! A mother teaching her daughter how to look PRESENTABLE// what an awful thing to encourage!! How thoughtful of you to turn that into something negative. This is exactly the sort of thing women who put very little effort into their appearance say. I see far too many shabby women at the school gates who seem to think that taking pride in how you look somehow makes you less intelligent or less serious about your career. You sound like the sort of tacky English woman who thinks shop bought frozen food, greasy hair and dirt under your nails are somehow signs that you’re above caring about your appearance. Being well groomed and taking pride in how you present yourself doesn’t mean you’re unintelligent, insecure or “compensating” for anything. If anything, the projection seems to be coming from you!

To me, it feels wrong. A child always twirling in front of a mirror, admiring herself, copying her Mum, wearing lip gloss, obsessed about what she wears and how she looks, taking ages getting ready, styling her hair.. I mean, come on, she is 7.

Like a little mini me already. Overly confident with how she looks, performative, that is learned behaviour.

Yes agree so dismissive! Why is it “silly and superficial” anymore than anything else?

I had no bearing on dd2 being interested in clothes and fashion. She’s 18 now and met her old primary head teacher who unprompted said how they all remember how stylish dd was. Nothing to do with me. Nice that adults would sneer because it’s the “wrong” ie non worthy interest 🙄

Lip gloss and lip balm are two different things. Maybe you should apply it more, it heals cracked lips.