To think MIL and SIL shouldn’t stop DD from caring about her appearance?

[theandl]

My MIL and SIL are quite different to me. They’re very much “looks are the least interesting thing about you” people and tend to look down on women who wear makeup, make an effort with clothes etc. They’re also very much of the “go on, have another piece of bread/pudding” school of eating and will make comments if anyone says no to dessert even when full.

I’m not particularly obsessed with looks but I do take pride in my appearance. I exercise, try to keep my weight fairly stable, wear makeup, make an effort with my clothes etc. I have a good job, 3 kids, went to Oxford, lots of hobbies, travel etc, so it’s not as though my appearance is my entire personality, but I do like looking nice. Mainly for myself rather than anyone else but also I guess my daughter so she’s not embarrassed to go to her mum by the school gates.

My DD is 7 and she’s quite similar to me in that respect. She loves choosing her outfits, doing her hair, pretty dresses, lip balm etc. She’s also bright, funny, loves reading and drawing, does gymnastics and is generally a lovely kid. She just likes pretty things and likes looking nice. Like many little girls I guess she copies me, her mum.

Recently MIL and SIL have started making little comments about it and it’s really starting to get to me. Things like “are we going through the whole wardrobe before we leave?”, “who are you trying to impress?” and “you know nobody really cares what you’re wearing, don’t you?”

The other day DD came downstairs in a new dress she’d picked out and clearly looked very happy with herself, thought she looked nice. SIL laughed and said something like “honestly, you are obsessed with looking pretty. It’s much more important to be clever.” DD just said “I am clever.” And that’s the bit that’s really got to me. I genuinely don’t care what they think about me. If they think I’m too interested in my appearance then fine, I’m an adult and can deal with it. But she’s 7. I don’t think adults need to be making comments to a 7yo about being vain or caring too much about how she looks.

Equally if she’s full and doesn’t want cake or another piece of lasagne, she’ll say “no thank you”, which I think is healthy. MIL will act all offended, as to them not finishing everything that someone has cooked is rude. By which I mean, if let’s say 10 portions of lasagne were cooked for 6 people and the surplus 4 were unfinished, it would be rude for people to say “no thank you” after they had eaten their original full portion and finished everything on their plate, just saying no to seconds.

Obviously I tell her that being kind, funny, clever, brave etc is much more important than being pretty. But I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with her liking dresses and doing her hair and wanting to look nice, twirling in front of the mirror and enjoying how she looks. They’re not mutually exclusive. I’ve told them to knock it off and they think I’m being too sensitive and that it’s only teasing. Other times they say that looks shouldn’t be something we think about at all but… people do think about looks, it’s just life!

There is a school of thought in some women you can’t be both clever and attractive. That you’re somehow shallow if you care about both. I’ve seen posts on here from women who proudly never compliment their own daughters looks, and posts from women who grew up thinking something was wrong with them as even their own mother never told them they were pretty

its fairly ignorant to think both don’t matter. I think it’s to do with their own feelings on their own appearance.

for me, I always told and tell my daughter she’s gorgeous, smart, clever, funny , kind etc, I always wanted her to be all round confident and she is, and if anyone spoke to my child like your sil is speaking to your daughter, she’d do it once and she’s never co it again.

At least "they must be jealous" is a little less fanciful than calling posters who disagree with them "trolls", "men" or recently - and this is probably my favourite one - a "Russian bot" 🤣

Are you the sil, as the op never said she kept them waiting, careful now…

No, I must be jealous, a troll, a man and a Russian bot 😉

Very defensive there,,.

I do wish people would think a bit more before shouting INTERNALISED MISOGYNY when they disagree with another woman as this risks invalidating/seeking to invalidate legitimate critiques of cultural practices or individual choices

I don’t think it’s misogyny , I think it’s women very unhappy with their own appearance , who can’t bring themselves to compliment another female, even a child.

Things like “are we going through the whole wardrobe before we leave?” in the opening post, very much implies she does.

Actually... so sick of relatives thinking they have the right to openly routinely and consistently criticise a child.. and then brush it off with remarks like.

"Oh its just idle conversation"
"Someone had to tell them"
"They shouldn't be so sensitive"

Children bloody well are sensitive. They wouldn't get away with saying such things to an adult.
What your relatives saw OP was a child taking pleasure ( as Children do) in something small like wearing a nice item of clothing that they liked... and they had to spoil it.

It's not like she was writing on the wallpaper with a sharpie was it? Really mean spirited.

Yes - I was the “clever” one. Aka, the ugly one. I even vividly remember my sister telling me “you got the books, I got the looks”.

OP, I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. But it is hard to know without truly knowing the ins and outs and the context of both sides. Never have I ever thought my kids would be embarrassed of how I look. That to me is a red flag in terms of your preoccupation with looking nice. But, also, they could just be jealous types who don’t appreciate other women’s beauty etc. Only you know really.

What's wrong with saying no to high-calorie food for health/weight reason? Surely that's a good thing to mimic? My DS21 always looks at the calories per portion and limits what he eats. It's called being sensible. DS23 will eat a whole packet of biscuits in one sitting which is not at all sensible.

I largely didn't give shit how I looked at the school gates, although did try to avoid PJs and dirty hair. My daughter aged 7 was very keen on pretty dresses and how she looked. I just told her she looked beautiful. She's 19 now and still likes to look nice. She is also kind, hard working and clever. MIL and SIL should just be telling her she looks lovely.
Also agree food attitude is rubbish!

I think it's really important to want to look reasonably nice because quite a lot of the vanity stuff - about staying slim, good skin, looking presentable - is in fact an inner reflection of your health and inner state of mind.

I have waxed and waned in my views but certainly friends who are a little more concerned with how they look and behave, show up in many positive ways beyond just being a 'pretty face'

You have a certain standard you are trying to inculcate in your daughter. Who are your sister or mother to decide they know better? That what they're focused on is the right thing, and yours isn't?

Adult men being conscious about what they are putting in their bodies, is a lot different from a 7 yr old having any such thoughts though.

Plus, many of us manage to eat pretty well without ever reading the calorific content of anything - just habits throughout life that encompass a healthier way of eating.

"..but I do like looking nice. Mainly for myself rather than anyone else..."
Can we all stop with this line. It's patently false. None of us get dressed up to go and sit on the sofa. We do it when leaving the house. And we're not carting 6ft mirrors around to look at ourselves constantly."

Full disclosure I don't own any even slightly uncomfortable clothes or shoes and never wear makeup BUT I do wear my nice clothes on my sit around at home days AND I use perfume and jewellery. because why not?

See, when I read the OPs comments I viewed it differently (admittedly my own experience so I may be wrong!).
The girls in my daughter's class of the same age can be mean when someone does something "different". I feel like if I rocked up wearing something outlandish it would potentially bother my daughter too. But this isn't because I've placed emphasis on looks or I'm obsessed with them, it's because she would notice the difference and want to fit in with her friends.

I remember being in primary school and you got picked on if you ate beans because they cause wind. So no one ate beans for the rest of primary! Children are learning that other people do have opinions that aren't always kind at this age.

Can't say my kids have ever commented on my appearance tbh. Its not important to them.
Obviously you encourage clothes shopping and hair and lip balm. Own who you are.
You remind me of a parentnwho god forbid her daughter ever got mud on her clothes or mussed her hair.
Theres lots to be said for sticking on some clothes kids can play in and not worry about

Yes. It is not polite to keep everyone waiting.

Mhmm, of course you do. Can't extrapolate that to the rest of society. Even you must know that isn't normal. Or maybe you do it because you don't really have lounging clothes?

You described more of an anal / compulsive / fashion-focused reason. Also: that's still loungewear you described.

It's sad women will use any excuse under the sun to justify continuing to look like barbie dolls. "Well, I don't wear stilettoes".. yes, okay but any heel is still impractical and bad for our feet. You might not have false lashes out to your forehead, but any makeup is still a mask hiding your real face.

We need to stop with the excuses or stop complaining we're seen as live sex dolls. It's of our own doing at this point. There's enough information out there to help us understand that this isn't evolution-based, it's greedy people selling us crap we don't need. Remember when women had pubic hair? Before hair dye? Before lip fillers? Before contouring? It's got out of control. And it's women teaching other women. I never cared until I wanted to copy the women in my family.

Bikinis, mini skirts, see-through tops, childish / princess-style summer dresses.. all this fashion is mostly only aimed at women. It could also be aimed at men but isn't. We're kept looking childish and silly while they look as nature intended and look practical.

lol my nice clothes are seasalt and jeans. I don't own any skirts or dresses and my pubic hair is still there and all my own. Haven't ever worn heels other than cuban heeled boots but you go right ahead and make stuff up!

I'm finding the number of posters who are announcing that OP is vanity obsessed and so is her DD for daring to suggest that kids actually notice what people around them wear and do utterly bizarre.

Firstly, the suggestion that they can perfectly remember everything you thought at age 7 is hilarious. I can barely remember what I did last week, let alone say with perfect clarity what I did and didn't pay attention to as a small child. It's utterly ridiculous. Just because you can't remember realising some people dressed one way and others didn't doesn't mean you didn't notice at the time!

If kids honestly don't notice appearance why are the smelly/ugly kids often bullied? Why do all TV shows aimed at kids go to the effort of using particular costumes/scenery/clues to denote characters and personality if their target audience doesn't pick up on any of that? Why does Miss Rachel wear dungarees and bright colours rather than all black business dress? Why do the parents in the Rugrats wear very different clothes and hairstyles?

OP and her dd sound normal. Her in laws sound judgy and annoying. And I'm typing this in scruffy joggers without a scrap of make up on so in appearance would probably err towards what they think women 'should' appear than OP's style.

And in nature (David Attenborough style), it’s the male of the species with the fantastic get up to attract a mate! I’ve occasionally wondered why the human species (Western) has the people do the get up and display to attract a mate 🤔

Yeah, she might not be embarrassed by what you're wearing but she might be embarrassed by you shoehorning Oxford into every conversation!

Then you're not getting dressed up to sit on your sofa?? Jeans isn't getting dressed up. Maybe we have our wires crossed about the meaning of 'looking nice'.

No one is putting on a full face of makeup, curling their hair for an hour, painting their nails, getting their dresses out and heels, to go and lounge all day on the sofa.

That's the point. When people go out, having 'made an effort', it is because others will see them.

If humans had no sight, clothes would never have even been invented, never mind having 'pretty' dresses only women are expected to wear.