To think MIL and SIL shouldn’t stop DD from caring about her appearance?

[theandl]

My MIL and SIL are quite different to me. They’re very much “looks are the least interesting thing about you” people and tend to look down on women who wear makeup, make an effort with clothes etc. They’re also very much of the “go on, have another piece of bread/pudding” school of eating and will make comments if anyone says no to dessert even when full.

I’m not particularly obsessed with looks but I do take pride in my appearance. I exercise, try to keep my weight fairly stable, wear makeup, make an effort with my clothes etc. I have a good job, 3 kids, went to Oxford, lots of hobbies, travel etc, so it’s not as though my appearance is my entire personality, but I do like looking nice. Mainly for myself rather than anyone else but also I guess my daughter so she’s not embarrassed to go to her mum by the school gates.

My DD is 7 and she’s quite similar to me in that respect. She loves choosing her outfits, doing her hair, pretty dresses, lip balm etc. She’s also bright, funny, loves reading and drawing, does gymnastics and is generally a lovely kid. She just likes pretty things and likes looking nice. Like many little girls I guess she copies me, her mum.

Recently MIL and SIL have started making little comments about it and it’s really starting to get to me. Things like “are we going through the whole wardrobe before we leave?”, “who are you trying to impress?” and “you know nobody really cares what you’re wearing, don’t you?”

The other day DD came downstairs in a new dress she’d picked out and clearly looked very happy with herself, thought she looked nice. SIL laughed and said something like “honestly, you are obsessed with looking pretty. It’s much more important to be clever.” DD just said “I am clever.” And that’s the bit that’s really got to me. I genuinely don’t care what they think about me. If they think I’m too interested in my appearance then fine, I’m an adult and can deal with it. But she’s 7. I don’t think adults need to be making comments to a 7yo about being vain or caring too much about how she looks.

Equally if she’s full and doesn’t want cake or another piece of lasagne, she’ll say “no thank you”, which I think is healthy. MIL will act all offended, as to them not finishing everything that someone has cooked is rude. By which I mean, if let’s say 10 portions of lasagne were cooked for 6 people and the surplus 4 were unfinished, it would be rude for people to say “no thank you” after they had eaten their original full portion and finished everything on their plate, just saying no to seconds.

Obviously I tell her that being kind, funny, clever, brave etc is much more important than being pretty. But I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with her liking dresses and doing her hair and wanting to look nice, twirling in front of the mirror and enjoying how she looks. They’re not mutually exclusive. I’ve told them to knock it off and they think I’m being too sensitive and that it’s only teasing. Other times they say that looks shouldn’t be something we think about at all but… people do think about looks, it’s just life!

You are right BUT that's the bit when the adults teach the kids not to judge a book by it's cover and everyone is different . If you had a noticeable disability that you felt 'embarrased your daughter ' what would you do ?

YANBU. They are being rude. As long as your daughter is well rounded, that's all that matters. Nothing wrong with wanting to look nice and presentable.

I love pretty dresses still in my 40s.

Also, nothing wrong with wanting to look nice at the school gates. It's full of professionals after all.

She can be both clever and pretty. It’s not either or.

I don’t think your dd should be hearing any negativity about her looks or brains. Or that she likes to look good. Nothing wrong with that. I’d tell Sil and mil to pipe down and give it a rest.

Tell them to shut the front door.

Ah well, attendance at all costs eh?

This. The school gates comment speaks volumes.

My mum wasn’t particularly interested in clothes or make up, but I love them. I vividly remember organising my wardrobe age 7 and taking out clothes to admire. I always knew what I wanted to wear.

Some girls (and boys) are just interested in clothes. Your MIL and SIL should butt out. They sound like they’re having a dig at you through your DD and also trying to stop her pursuing her interests in clothes. That’s wrong and it would piss me off. Your DD should feel free to like or dislike things as she grows up and discovers her own interests.

Awful to read. She is 7, a little girl and she should not be concerned with looking anything but a little girl. She is copying you, will she start to look down on others who may not be as gifted or pretty as her as you seem to do.
Your whole attitude screams of 'look at me, Im pretty and intelligent'. Let your child be a child not a mini me.

OP you’ve received a disproportionate number of negative responses here. I completely understand where you’re coming from. I’m a highly educated and successful professional who also happens to take pleasure in fashion and appearances. I find the attitude that anything frivolous is ‘beneath’ an intellectual mind, very short-sighted and rather depressing. If you find joy and creativity in choosing how you present yourself, then that’s a good thing!

I say ignore your in-laws as far as possible, but if it comes to it you might carefully have to address the issue. They are entitled to live and dress as they wish, without your judgement - different strokes for different folks etc. But perhaps you will need to remind them that just as their choices are valid, so are yours and your daughter’s!

So if you do t look nice then you can't be a " professional" ?

Challenge them. ‘What about DDs outfit makes you think she isn’t clever or is trying to impress anyone? She has worn an outfit she likes… do you want her to hide away in a bin bag?’

Agree.

Sure if your DD doesn’t want an extra piece of pudding at her granny’s she shouldn’t but you do sound OTT.

My mum was obsessed with good quality clothes and looking well presented, she made sure her children looked perfect. She was less than impressed when i hit 12 and lived in jeans and trainers. When i went through my Punk stage she was mortified. Hopefully OP your daughter will find a grunge stage.

I love that the daughter's reply was 'I am clever.' That shows she has healthy self-esteem and isn't put down by people trying to mould her to their approval.

I think your inlaws are rude and are showing up their own insecurities, but I also think it’s worth reflecting on the belief that a seven-year-old would be embarrassed by your appearance at the school gate. Where did that come from? Were you embarrassed by your own mum or do you remember kids making comments about other parents when they were very young? Or was it actually during teen years? I do think you can afford to challenge your anxiety here, but don’t think you’re doing anything wrong overall.

I had a mum who was a bit like your MIL and who was pretty poor at teaching me the value of taking pride in my appearance. She thought of herself as plain (though is not) and never gave me any real guidance in self-presentation. I felt bad about myself as I have a strong aesthetic sense, and was disappointed not to have stylish clothes, makeup etc, growing up. I was taught that it was vain and silly to care about.

As a result I really under-valued myself when it came to male attention in my 20s as I thought all my value to others rested in my academic performance and ability to “work hard”. I was pretty insecure/ignorant of the fact that I was actually very attractive so really set myself up to be overly grateful any time a man showed me interest.

I also had a controlling ex who used the idea that “high-maintenance women are annoying” as a tool to keep me small.

I think it’s best to teach girls and young women to value themselves in all ways, and to understand and work with the unpopular reality that beauty is actually a pretty potent form of power in a world where the power balance is often tipped away from women.

At 7, I can honestly say I couldn't have given an utter toss what my mum wore to the school gates. Because she was busy raising children and going back into the workplace, as well as running a home (my dad worked full time). She was a caring and lovely person, and I initially used to cry when she dropped us and left. Who cares what she wore? I know she was groomed and neat. What else matters? And yes I myself love make up and fashion, but I don't live and die by it.

But then I'm from the late 70s / 80s when 7 year olds didn't know what make up was. Age 12 or 13, I was kindly given an eyeshadow quad by a friend for Christmas, from St Michael at Mark's and Spencer, and it was a really big deal.

I also don't see the relevance of you "going to Oxford" has. You're talking about looks and make up and diet.

I’m with you, OP.

I have daughters, one being a teen, and I have taught her that looking presentable and making an effort with your appearance is important. I believe It gives you a confidence and you feel better in yourself.

My MIL prides herself on never wearing make up, or perfume, or following fashion and she absolutely does not “get” myself or my teen.

People can agree or disagree. What’s important to one, won’t be important to another, but in my house I like myself and my kids to look “put together” But that absolutely doesn’t mean we would be unkind to, or about, anyone that didn’t feel the same. One of my very best friends is the complete opposite to me when it comes to make up, skincare, dress sense, exercise, diet etc… She’s fabulous as she is. We’re all different, and her kids (Including her teens) Have never, ever appeared ashamed in any way of her. They adore her, and spend bags of time with her, and glamour is absolutely not her thing.

Nothing beats kindness in my house. Kindness is everything. That’s taught to my children first and foremost, but yes, I see your point completely, and good on you I say.

But would be embarrassed of her own mother if she didn’t approve of her clothing.

Top marks for the crowbar of going to Oxford into your post OP.

It reminded me of the old joke, how do you tell if someone went to Oxbridge? Don't worry, they'll tell you.

They don't like you and they're trying to shame your daughter into not being like you. They're negging her and that needs to stop.

It's fine for her to take pride in her appearance as well as her accomplishments. Getting into the habit of looking decent is a normal part of growing up. She's establishing habits that will serve her well in the future.

The food shit has to stop. Your in laws are telling her to ignore her body signals to stop eating and that way lies eating issues. Your husband needs to come down hard on them negging her appearance and trying to make her eat more when she's full. I'd keep her away from them if they won't stop, they're going to harm her self esteem and eating if this continues.

Too right!

Yep. That's not screaming high self esteem to me. She should be confident and comfortable enough not to give two holy hoots if mum sometimes does the drop off fresh faced!

Tell them that it is possible to have a brain and be able to look well groomed too, it’s not brains vs beauty, one of the other.
I would tell them to mind their own business.

I think this is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

The food pushing is incredibly unhelpful and I would probably want to have a quiet word about it, or have a quiet word with my daughter before any meals there, making it clear it's always okay to stop eating when your appetite is satiated.

But I do also think a focus on looks and a belief that a 7 year old would find you embarrassing isn't super healthy either. And I'm someone who lives to wear dresses and things, so it's not that I don't under the desire to look nice. But it doesn't ever delay me leaving the house and therefore inconvenience other people.

I remember being embarrassed at 15 when my dad turned up to school in head to toe lycra and came into the school to find me. But that's a) a much older age and b) a fairly extreme example!

If anything children should be encouraged more than ever to take pride in their appearance. Society’s dress codes have really changed and not for the better.