AIBU to not want to have a baby with autistic partner?

[MeVengo]

Hi everyone. Apologies about the grabby title.

I guess I'm looking for any advice or words of wisdom here. I already have 5 year old DD with ExH. I've been with my partner a couple of years, this year slowly introducing him to DD with the plans of hopefully living together next year. As long as DD is happy and settled that is, she is a priority of course.

Anyway more to the point. My partner is autistic. I know there is risk of having an autistic child regardless of genetics and that was a risk I was willing to take when I had DD (2 NT parents.) My partner is autistic. It does come with its challenges but I love him and he's been very open and honest about it. Recently we had a conversation about having children. I'd like one more, and he would like one. We were speaking about what he was like as a child. Him and his brother are both autistic. He was essentially telling me that he didn't sleep for the most of his childhood, he ended up in respite care for periods of time as did his brother. There's also a big genetic link with autism too. To be honest I just don't think I can willingly TTC knowing there's such a big risk. It's a different risk to TTC with no history of neurodiversity and that was a risk I was willing to take 6 years ago.

I feel pretty selfish for having this point of view and I can't really articulate how I'm really feeling. Of course no post chooses to have an autistic or disabled child, but I'm going to have to tell him that I don't think I can willingly try for a baby with him knowing there's such much bigger risk factors. The impact it could have on my DD. I've read through many threads on here recently after we discussed this, and there are so many many threads where (mostly mums) struggle, how their life is turned upside down, the impact on any siblings etc.

As mentioned I know there's a risk for any child to have any sort of disability, and that's a risk I'm willing to take. But when there's genetics and immediate family history of it, I think that's different.

Am I being unreasonable to feel like this? Can any parents who have been in this situation give me any words of wisdom? Do any parents of autistic children in hindsight would you change anything?

If he really wants to have a child, and he's so within his rights to want that for himself, as much as it will break my heart I will have to end the relationship because I wouldn't want him to feel stuck or resentful towards me because of how I feel.

As much as he has been open and honest about his autism, now we spent a lot more time together, there are definite struggles, some adaptable but some challenges for sure. I desperately don't want to end a relationship 'because he is autistic' but I just know that's how he will take it, if I tell him I don't want to have a baby with him. And that breaks my heart. I feel awful about this and don't really know if I'm entitled to even feel like this.

In my culturally conservative community; men generally do manage all the finances, even for NT wives. This has resulted in financial abuse and women being trapped in abusive marriages, so I obviously did not want to follow that model.

In any case I'd be more concerned about a man wanting to have a serious romantic relationship with a woman that was so dependent on another adult to cope with her adult responsibilities. Maybe it's unfair but I'd be worried that it's for predatory reasons.

No I wouldn’t have a child with him as couldn’t put myself through caring for an autistic child.

I didn’t say which you were and it doesn’t matter which you are because as I agree being ND or NT doesn’t determine what kind of parent you’ll be but actions and words do.

From the conversation OP had with him and what she herself has seen and taken account for those who help him which the majority seem to be women, he would not be a suitable parent. She knows him way better than strangers on the internet. She knows what she is willing to accept, carry, etc.

Yes, he could find someone who is willing to commit to him knowing his strengths and limitations, but that doesn’t change the fact that he would not be a suitable parent and worth the chance to take for OP especially when she already has a child.

So do you think I’m wrong for sharing my experience with an at times violent ND child and an ex ND husband that nearly drove me to breaking point? I should just shut up and never speak of it again?
It seems you are trying to silence people unless they have the same experience as you and a couple other posters. (And your experience is great for you, it really truly is)
The majority of people on this thread unfortunately have had a different experience and also acknowledge that it is THEIR own and it is different for everyone.
You don’t seem to acknowledge other people’s lived experience and just dismiss it.
This is why a lot of parents/partners don’t speak out.

Once again, this just shows how the expression of ND traits can be challenging. We are undoubtedly seeing a lot of justice sensitivity on this thread which is a common trait of Autism.

They are ultra aware of the definition of ableism and that this can be interpreted so widely that any negativity expressed towards disability has to automatically be ableism, even if it's a disabled person referencing their own disability or a loved one of a disabled person recounting their lived experience. This is all entrenched in a absolute belief that disability cannot be a problem in itself but that it's society's attitude and approach to disability that creates all the issues.

Logically this just isn't something that everyone subscribes to nor should they be forced to. My grandma is now registered as disabled because she has lost her sight and she absolutely resents this and hardship it's brought to her life. The issue in her mind isn't that society hasn't accommodated this change but that she's lost her sight in the first place. For my disabled relative that has autism it's the same. It is hard to live such a rigid and restrictive life and to lack the skills that would enable true independence. It's not society that means missing an episode of EastEnders is a crisis or that forces them to spend all their money on the first day they receive it. Society doesn't force them to hoard huge amounts of food and drinks or to cross social boundaries to the point where people feel they are at risk from him. I'm sure though in some posters' minds in this thread, all of this is just negative ableism and can be reframed as a positive. They will insist this even when all evidence suggests that actually a disability will by definition make things harder for the individual themselves and for those supporting them

Trotting out “autism is a superpower” makes me so angry. I’m glad your child is doing so well, but many kids are not.

My child is autistic and is definitely not a superpower, it is incredibly disabling and affects the whole family as well as him. Trying to advocate for education was exhausting and even though we’re in a good school now they are approaching secondary and still no reading or writing because they don’t want to, not because they can’t. I have doubts DC will ever get a job or live independently. I’ve given up my career to be a SAHM, we don’t do normal days out or holidays, home life is living on egg shells, I’ve had disrupted sleep until they were 6, younger DC is impacted to and if they are able to will likely be a carer for autistic DC, I worry constantly, life is incredibly restricted. I made a sad joke with DH that if DC were to ever have children then we’d have to look after them too. I’m so tired and life is not good or fun anymore, and the only enjoyment I can find is when DC is happy and settled. To have your own peace completely depend on the state of your child which is teetering on chaos all the time is awful. If I could take away his disability I absolutely would.

I would never want them to be exceptional at anything either. Just being happy in themselves, being able to keep safe from others who would do them harm, and to live an independent life is all I want now. Would you roll a dice that is weighted towards not having any of these things? It’s not fair on the child either is it.

Completely agree and you've put it better than I ever could. You've shared your experiences even though some posters are trying to shut those down. Hats off to you.

How is it ‘false’ if nearly everyone with lived experience is saying the same things here ?

Just shouting ‘you are wrong’ at everyone does not make them wrong. It just means that you are correct, not everyone is the same.

we all agree there

WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. Stop taking offence to other people’s experiences. I’m glad you are wonderful person having a wonderful experience. That is not everyone’s experience. Some proper find it harder.

We are allowed to talk about it. The more people post here with different opinions, the better. Nobody is wrong for saying what their experience was. The more people that post positive stuff, the better.

Nobody has said ‘everyone is the same’ or generalised here I don’t know where you are seeing this. I’m not seeing it. (Meant genuinely)

I don't know how we balance being more positive about children with disabilities whilst acknowledging the experiences of the families whose lives are far harder. I'm not comfortable with silencing people who are talking about their experiences even if it's for what some would consider a good reason.

Wider society does have a role to play in making things more accessible for people with disabilities. There could be more support for families and the system could be less adversarial. It's not going to solve everything though and these families are still going to be worse off.

I think we're less able to accept things just happening. We mostly want to plan our families and take steps to try and prevent what we consider to be bad outcomes. We hear more stories about suffering families and know more about autism being genetic and I don't think we can un-know these things.

This

I have noticed that refusal to accept gender differences is present in every autistic person I've met.
Absolute stubborn refusal. You will be shut down if you even allude to it.

I meant absolutely no harm by saying that men, on the whole, are more into looks than women are. None whatsoever.
We know this - where are all the horrible smutty magazines featuring naked men?

The truth is romantic relationships are transactional.

It's like a series of checks and balances that we - and I must stress that this is often subconscious- attach to another person in terms of value and if one value is lacking then another may make up for it.

Thus looks may compensate for lacking in other areas more for men than women.

This does NOT mean that a man is with a woman purely for how she looks at all!

Completely agree with everything you've written. It's been burnt into society. Page 3, porn, FHM mags and the likes. It's completely evident and it's ridiculous to say otherwise.

That some people don't want aspects of her life

My dear you know nothing of my life, and the fact that you are so happy to declare you don't want it simply because you know my child is disabled says everything about your attitudes towards disability. I don't need anyone to want my life - I couldn't care less what you or anyone else chooses for themselves- I'm so respectful of people making different life choices- I think that's a great thing.

What I can't let stand without challenge is people contributing/ promoting a dominant cultural narrative that disabled people/ children are inferior , burdensome, something that "blows up" a family and are "inflicted" on others. I will challenge this because it harms my child, and my family.

Of course you are allowed to speak of your experiences. There's a massive difference between parents sharing challenging personal experiences and people promoting the types of harmful generalisations that I am objecting to.

now you are seeking to undermine people who disagree with you by suggesting their opinions are a pathological symptom of ND?

These things are often affected by severity. If I knew I could have my dd who is ND, exactly as she is now, I'd have her again like a shot. Both of mine. So lucky on that front. If it were a more severe form, affecting capacity to live independently, lack of insight or anything more difficult, or combined with other disabilities, I wouldn't want to cope with that when I already had children.

That's the unknown, and it's usually that, coupled with more limited capacity when you already have kids, that I think makes people err on the side of not going ahead.

My mum always dealt with money. My dad had no idea how to do it. Both NT.

I think that a lot of the flak you are getting from the autistic people posting here is because autistic people lack what is called theory of mind.

In other words, lack of ability to see things through another person's perspective.

An experiment was conducted whereby children (under 4 I think) were presented with a tube of smarties, the researcher asked what they thought was inside, they replied 'smarties'.
The tube was opened to reveal pencils.

The child was asked, 'what do you think John (another child who was outside the room) would think was in the tube. They said' pencils'.

In other words children of this age lacked the ability to see things from the perspective of another.

Older children were able to see that the other child would think there were sweets in the tube even though they knew it was pencils.

Now I am NOT saying autistic adults are still at this very low level of being unable to understand others perspectives - of course not! - but they are to a certain level.

This is why I believe you're getting flak.

There is little comprehension that others may feel differently.

I'm sorry but your understanding of the divergence of autism is lacking.

There isn't one impairment called 'autism' and everyone who has it has no theory of mind, plenty of people who are autistic do, and many think that some autistic people are overstimulated in terms of others emotions, not under, and it is this overwhelm that is often associated with the coping behaviours.

This is old research, and new debates are showing it doesn't necessarily demonstrate what you think it does, plus now there is more awareness and diagnoses along the spectrum of presentations, so many people with autism/autistic traits will be quite good at some aspects of theory of mind type behaviours, whilst lacking in others, same as you perhaps. All the autistic people I know understand others have different opinions, apart from those with learning difficulties, and some of those do too. I have colleagues who specialise in autism who are themselves autistic and it would simply not be possible to do their jobs without the exchange of ideas and facts.

In fact, why am I wasting my breath on this? You don't even believe this yourself.

I manage all our money and my husband manages all the laundry. We're both ND and yet somehow between us we have two, healthy, happy ND kids who are thriving at school and in life.

OP, who is a newly single mother of a 5 yo, doesn't want my life, as a very happily married mother and stepmother. I have an active social life, many hobbies which I'm good at, and we're never bored. My daughter (and my stepdaughter when she was younger) has an amazing childhood filled with magic that NT parents rarely have the imagination or creativity to create.

It's a good thing she doesn't want it as she can't have it.

It sounds like her now-ex is incompetent at life because he's been enabled to be. I'd go so far as saying the majority of men- autistic or not- are incompetent at life, because women will pick up the slack. Everyone having a baby has a 50:50 chance of having a boy- whether they become entitled and incompetent is down to them.

I'm not comfortable with silencing people who are talking about their experiences even if it's for what some would consider a good reason.

Hear hear!

Wider society does have a role to play in making things more accessible for people with disabilities.

Absolutely. As a parent carer I have had to fight for every scrap and every crumb of support. The issue is that support costs money, and nobody is willing to pay for it. An example I have is that to even take my eloping autistic son to the park I have to make sure it is a park with a 360° perimeter and self closing gates because I can't trust other users to close the gates, there's 1 in my area and we have to drive to it. Just getting out of the house is a huge ordeal. I can't imagine bringing another child into our dynamic even if they were NT because my existing child's needs restrict what we can do and where we can go, how long we can stay, how much things cost, how much energy I have left.

I think we're less able to accept things just happening. We mostly want to plan our families and take steps to try and prevent what we consider to be bad outcomes. We hear more stories about suffering families and know more about autism being genetic and I don't think we can un-know these things.

You only have to glance at the news and see the cuts to SEN rights, read about the EHCP process and hear about the fight people have just trying to get their child into an education setting that can do the bare minimum of meeting their needs. I can't imagine having 2 children in different schools and having to split my time between SEN advocacy, gruelling relentless never ending paperwork, playing catch up at home trying to support foundational skills like spelling, phonics and basic maths as well as make sure each child is educationally supported, receives one on one time, gets to have their own protected hobbies and interests, maintain a household and work. I just couldn't do it, there's not enough coffee or hours in a day that could sustainably make it possible. I am drowning in paperwork from having just 1 SEN child. I had to give up any prospect of work, I have had to abandon my plans to set up my own business. I don't sleep any decent stretches. I manage to get a bath or a shower once a week, as even if I run one, there's something I have to attend to by which point the water is cold, we're all knackered and we just want to sit in a dark room and cry.

I would give my life to change the world for my son, I would walk across hot coals and lego and move mountains and paint the sky red. I know it isn't true but I feel like I love my son more than anybody has ever loved anyone in the history of love, but it isn't a crime to say that there is no community support, or social care, and it is draining that the burden of his care falls squarely on my shoulders. It isn't ableist.

The thing is, i see so many threads here where the poster is overwhelmed by responsibility due to having both ND partner who’s quite frankly useless and trying to care for ND kids. Often times the poster is repeatedly asked why they had kids with said partner. Now that a poster has decided to not have a kid with a partner who's behaviour indicates they wouldn’t pull their weight, they are suddenly called ableist?

There are many ND people who don't realise how much scaffolding they actually need to function.
If they have a quasi-stable life they think that is "proof" that they are able and competent to get to the next stage in life.

A PP made this point and I agree.

It's hard for families to judge as so much become routine and just how things are. I thought we'd slowly stripped the scolding away the older two better prepared than DH and I for university yet they have still really struggled - not with the work with everything - and that's in a more supportive environment. They will get there eveuntually and do not need the level of support the parenter does here.

There a thread at moment about child forgetting things at secondary - and the mum starting a new job so can't drop things off but girl and Dad still expect it as it's only x minutes. It's invisible work so often when Mum's do it.

Our set up fine - kids are happy despite extra challeneges but it wouldn't take that much for that to be very different experience.

OP is already a single parent who gone through cancer with a parnter who lives at home needs fair bit of consideration already and has someone manage his money - that's a tougher set up already for another child than most would contemplate - a child with increased risk of needing more support with parenting than most well that doesn't make the prosepect any easier.