AIBU to not want to have a baby with autistic partner?

[MeVengo]

Hi everyone. Apologies about the grabby title.

I guess I'm looking for any advice or words of wisdom here. I already have 5 year old DD with ExH. I've been with my partner a couple of years, this year slowly introducing him to DD with the plans of hopefully living together next year. As long as DD is happy and settled that is, she is a priority of course.

Anyway more to the point. My partner is autistic. I know there is risk of having an autistic child regardless of genetics and that was a risk I was willing to take when I had DD (2 NT parents.) My partner is autistic. It does come with its challenges but I love him and he's been very open and honest about it. Recently we had a conversation about having children. I'd like one more, and he would like one. We were speaking about what he was like as a child. Him and his brother are both autistic. He was essentially telling me that he didn't sleep for the most of his childhood, he ended up in respite care for periods of time as did his brother. There's also a big genetic link with autism too. To be honest I just don't think I can willingly TTC knowing there's such a big risk. It's a different risk to TTC with no history of neurodiversity and that was a risk I was willing to take 6 years ago.

I feel pretty selfish for having this point of view and I can't really articulate how I'm really feeling. Of course no post chooses to have an autistic or disabled child, but I'm going to have to tell him that I don't think I can willingly try for a baby with him knowing there's such much bigger risk factors. The impact it could have on my DD. I've read through many threads on here recently after we discussed this, and there are so many many threads where (mostly mums) struggle, how their life is turned upside down, the impact on any siblings etc.

As mentioned I know there's a risk for any child to have any sort of disability, and that's a risk I'm willing to take. But when there's genetics and immediate family history of it, I think that's different.

Am I being unreasonable to feel like this? Can any parents who have been in this situation give me any words of wisdom? Do any parents of autistic children in hindsight would you change anything?

If he really wants to have a child, and he's so within his rights to want that for himself, as much as it will break my heart I will have to end the relationship because I wouldn't want him to feel stuck or resentful towards me because of how I feel.

As much as he has been open and honest about his autism, now we spent a lot more time together, there are definite struggles, some adaptable but some challenges for sure. I desperately don't want to end a relationship 'because he is autistic' but I just know that's how he will take it, if I tell him I don't want to have a baby with him. And that breaks my heart. I feel awful about this and don't really know if I'm entitled to even feel like this.

Well, no one is stopping people from posting those things. So where are all these people.who think raising ND children with an ND partner is better?

When you have a child, you love that child. I wouldnt change ds for anything. But there is no doubt that parenting him has been significantly harder. I got almost no sleep for years. The planning and effort to manage him. The advocating for him because otherwise the system would let him down. The cost of buying in support where it wasnt available otherwise. The judgement we faced over and over because other people dont understand....

If I had to do it all again, I would because I know the ds is amazing. But I wouldnt recommend it for r a child who doesn't even exist. Its bloody hard.

I actually think we're talking two separate issues.

The first one is the fact that someone who is very dependent on their parents in adulthood is a risky prospect to have children with in of itself. This is true with or without autism.

The second one is the rolling the genetic dice when it comes to having a child with an autistic person. I also know families with autistic parents who are perfectly capable of having reciprocal relationships (even if that might look different to some people) and being responsive parents. The problem is not knowing how autism will manifest in another person and now this is more well known not everyone will want to take the risk.

Women can dump men for any reason whatsoever, and vice versa too. Dating is not equal opportunity.

Absolutely. Women should always date as they please and make their own reproductive choices.
That's entirely separate to the fact that this is a thread where the overwhelming majority of the content/ discussion uncritically promotes the (false and harmful) idea that disabled people are fundamentally inferior, less desirable and more difficult.

But posters have posted their own life experiences. They do find it difficult. How is that false?

If you don't, you are welcome to post too.

Some of the posters on this thread are demonstrating exactly the sort of self-centered, rigid, hyper-sensitive thinking that would make OP's partner extremely difficult to co-parent with.

They are really not making the point that they imagine they are.

When it comes to relationships - which is what this thread is about-they often are more difficult and less desirable to be in one with than a NT person.

I'm annoyed by this.
If anybody suggested that I was being, 'ableist' by ending it with my autistic ex - who could not see how I felt by a glance amongst a myriad of other negative things he put me through that drove me to absolute distraction (maybe not out of vindictiveness I admit) they could frankly f* off.

On one hand it's like you accept that a woman can end a relationship for whatever reason she likes then go on to imply that a woman who ends a relationship with an autistic man is being ablest, and by implication, unkind.

Thank goodness 90% of people here disagree.

Err no. You can date anyone you want. What I don't appreciate is a load of people on the internet posting all their ideas about the different ways disabled people are inferior, undesirable and difficult.

I fundamentally disagree with you and actually think what you're trying to promote which ultimately boils down to a form of censorship is very dangerous. I also think you are trying to expand the concept of ableism to encompass what you perceive to be negative accounts of disability and the impacts disability has had on people's lives. Again, this is a dangerous attempt to silence and shame people for bravery sharing their lives experiences and realities.

Disability by it's very definition makes day to day activities harder. It is highly likely to make the disabled person's life more difficult and those that have a relationship with that person. I have a disabled relative and whilst we love him, this is undoubtedly true. We as a family have to provide additional support and care that just wouldn't be needed if he wasn't disabled and this sometimes comes at a great personal cost to individuals. In all honesty I struggle to see how the disability has enhanced my relative's life or our family's life. This isn't ableist to acknowledge and it's a huge reason why society needs to step up and support disabled people and their families who are disadvantaged by the disability.

I will not lie about our experience but equally would expect those that have had a more positive experience not to lie also. The fact that tis thread isn't overwhelmed with posters keen to share their positive experiences implies that there are genuine common additional issues and risks associated with having Autistic partners and children. Again this isn't ableist to acknowledge this and you can't censor everyone so that the balance feels more equal or fair to you as this wouldn't reflect reality.

The fact that tis thread isn't overwhelmed with posters keen to share their positive experiences implies that there are genuine common additional issues and risks associated with having Autistic partners and children.

Ahh I disagree that you can get from a) to b). I think there's another explanation - that we live in a profoundly ableist society/ culture and that fundamentally frames how people narrate their experiences.

I cannot censor anyone, but nor can you censor me from calling out ableism when I see it - and drawing attention to the fact that it is harmful and false.

A load of people on the internet are talking about THEIR personal experiences. That is aloud and you not ‘appreciating’ it or being open to others experiences is not anyone’s else’s problem.

You are now saying that women with autistic partners who posted here about being stuck with all the child rearing are just conditioned by an ableist society to expect to share the job? If they could shake off this conditioning, they would be happy?

This is really stretching, and very dangerous thinking. Anyway, I will leave it there.
I think we need more threads like this one.

I am not attempting to censor you. I haven't accused you of prejudice. You are very happy to accuse everyone else though without any real substance to your claims other than you think everyone has been influenced by an ableist culture and can't accurately narrate their own lived experience. You obviously think people are incapable of recognising the financial sacrifices they have made, the emotional pain and worry they have incurred and the practical additional activities they have to undertake everyday to support a disabled partner or child. It's hugely insulting to be honest.

There is nothing harmful or false when someone is sharing their lives experiences and recounting the difficulties of disability. It is more harmful and fake to gas light people and pretend that they are false witnesses in their own lives. If they're such liars and everything is so great then why don't we remove state support for those with disabilities? If the hardships are just figments of our imagination then there isn't needed.

I don’t have time for a protracted argument on Mumsnet today :). However, I will say one last thing.

I think it’s really important that people share their experiences of parenting disabled children, including the challenges. There are many spaces where parents do this thoughtfully, with balance and room for the full range of feelings: pain, frustration, love and joy.

This thread, however, contains pages and pages presenting a relentlessly negative and partial picture, framed in a way that portrays disabled children as fundamentally inferior, less desirable and more difficult than their non-disabled peers. And advising OP not to procreate with a disabled person, in case she births one of these undesirable children.

You are free to disagree with that interpretation, but to me that is clearly the message being conveyed. Sharing difficult experiences is one thing; presenting those experiences as the whole story of disabled children and their families, and drawing eugenic conclusions from them, is another.

Just as you are free to share your experiences, I am free to share mine and to challenge how this discussion is framed. That is not censorship. My view is that the picture being presented here is misleading, harmful and ableist.

As a final note, of course OP is absolutely free to chose who to date and have children with, and it sounds like her and her partner are fundamentally incompatible and she has therefore drawn the right conclusions.

What part of in a relationship are you not understanding?

I am not talking about anything else.

I'll try again: in a relationship autistic people can be an absolute pain in the ass to be with as often they do not possess the skills needed to maintain one.

You don't get to tell us how to feel dude. I wish I'd never had kids. If I'd had known I'd produce autistic children and the utter hard never ending slog it would be, I'd absolutely not have had any and I have no issue of informing others of it either.

Abelist my arsehole

Your partner's ability to parent a child will be impacted by his own autism, let alone if you had an autistic child yourselves. I say this as the wife of an autistic person with an autistic child. My husband does not have an official diagnosis but since my son received his diagnosis at the age of 6 we have recognised that it is likely that my husband is also autistic. It sounds like your partner had quite significant needs as a child and some very challenging behaviour which is similar to my son and honestly I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It is HARD and life-changing and a lot of it would fall on you as the neurotypical parent (in my experience). The risk of having another autistic child put me off having a 3rd which I thought I would always want. It is completely valid to have concerns about co-parenting with your partner and if you both definitely want a baby then it sounds like you aren't compatible long term which is unfortunate but probably best to call it off now rather than further down the line.

Being in a relationship with neurotypical people can also be an absolute pain in the ass as they often do not possess the skills needed to maintain one.

equally being in a relationship with an autistic person can be wonderful as they can posses many wonderful traits that can be so valuable in a relationship. So this can be true of neurotypical people. Often the particular skills and attributes look different. Takes all kinds eh?

We can agree to disagree to a certain extent but your argument regarding ableism really only makes sense if MN or OP was somehow preventing individuals from posting the type of posts that you believe would present the more balanced and positive view of disability that you have deemed to be acceptable. We know this hasn't happened so we have to conclude that the thread reasonably accurately represents people's experiences. Perhaps the majority do find those with disabilities harder to parent than their non-disabled peer. This can't be a shock and is why DLA and respite care exists. It can be unbelievably difficult being the parent of a disabled child.

You are at liberty to share your own experiences and I think it's great to get a different perspective on this thread, but it's less acceptable to start suggesting that others are misrepresenting their experiences. What if people started accusing you of the same? Started to suggest that your experience isn't as possible as you insist it is because this doesn't align with their experience? It is inherently both insulting and undermining.

So in conclusion, sharing your views and experience is great and welcome. Trying to close down discussion based on spurious claims of ableism because the thread isn't as balanced as you subjectively think it should be is problematic. This kind of approach represents a real threat to forums like MN. Cries of prejudice and accusations of eugenics are very serious and imply the thread and discussion shouldn't be allowed to exist. This falls very easily and quickly into censorship

I just wanted to say that my autistic partner (post-divorce) is fantastic with my kids. He doesn’t live with us, but he’s really adding so much positive to their lives.

Again you cannot conclude that "most people are saying negative things therefore most people have only negative experiences". The alternative is that most people are saying only negative things because we live in a profoundly ableist society, and this is a thread which is been framed in such a way that people have been invited to express the full force of that.

And again, I am not trying to shut down discussion, I am sharing what i think about the discussion. That is contributing to the discussion , not silencing it.

Agree.

I would also add to your second point about the genetic dice of having autistic children, they also change as they grow up (like all kids) and some sensory issues may get better or worse with time and when you’re the parent that has to not only manage the more negative attributes, another spouse, and how that effects other siblings, it gets exhausting and can becomes detrimental to the person that has to manage. There’s a reason so many carers (often female) are burned out, higher chances of depression, chronic illness, thoughts of suicide, etc and the divorce rates are also higher if I recall correctly in ND/NT relationships and those where long-term caring responsibilities are involved.

Wasn’t there a study about autistic men thought to have been managing their autistic traits but really they had only gotten married and their wives were compensating for them. Saying that, that could be many men whether they are ND or not.

It does make a difference if one regardless of whether they are NT or ND manage their own attributes that hurt a relationship but they also have to want to and see an issue in the first place.

This is some extreme mental gymnastics.

You think that people are incapable of understanding and articulating their own lived experiences due to living in an ableist society? We live in a society where all sorts of prejudices and ideologies prevail, does that mean none of our lived experiences can be believed? Presumably the only accurate accounts of these experiences are the positive ones that align with your experiences? As someone that is living through the difficulties and hardship that disability can bring into a family unit I find it incredibly offensive that you are trying to frame it as a perception problem.

The thread hasn't been written in a particularly biased way. It's not inviting only negative accounts.

I do think we are getting more realistic about masking. I feel like when I was growing up (teenager in the 2000s) there was this sense that if an ND person could mask well enough to pass then all would be fine but now we understand more about potential burnout or it simply not being sustainable.

A lot of the troubles in ND/NT long term relationships seem to start with the ND person no longer being able to mask.

No, that isn’t what I’m saying at all. I’m not saying people are incapable of understanding their own experiences, or that negative experiences of disability are somehow false.
I’m saying that all of us communicate our experiences through narrative. We select what to emphasise, what to leave out, what we understand as significant, and how we interpret what has happened to us. Those narratives don’t arise in a cultural vacuum: they are inevitably informed by the ideas and assumptions available to us, and in turn they can reproduce those ideas.

My argument is that we live in a profoundly ableist society, and that this thread has been framed in a way that has invited people to express the full force of that ableism through the way they narrate their experiences of disabled children — overwhelmingly through burden, loss, difficulty and undesirability, with very little counterweight.

That doesn’t mean the difficulties people describe aren’t real. It means I think there is a difference between saying, “this aspect of raising my disabled child has been incredibly hard” and collectively constructing a picture in which disabled children themselves come to be represented primarily as a source of hardship and diminished family life.

You find what I’m saying deeply offensive as someone who is living the experiences of a family with disability. . As a neurodivergent person, and parent of the most spectacularly delightful , autistic child (level 3) I find much of this thread deeply offensive. I’m not sure there is any way around that except for both of us to be able to express our perspectives and acknowledge that we are deeply offended by very different things.

Sorry but this is nonsensical.

A relationship, by definition, needs to involve people who can read social cues and being able to understand the other person's basic mood at a glance.

(Let's not forget that a relationship also has obligations to the in-laws.
Who the heck wants somebody having a meltdown at a family event?)

If these things are not present you might as well not bother with them.

And don't tell me that autistic people can read social cues or other people: it is a defining trait of autism that they can't.

The bottom line is that autism is generally not compatible with what most would consider desirable traits in relationships that most would understand them.

And I'm getting frustrated at attempts to say that they are.