AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

[Poster555]

NC for this. I know landlords aren’t always popular here.

I own and manage a few HMO’s in a nearby city. All legal requirements fulfilled, and normally have long term tenants.

I woke this morning to a host of missed calls.
One of the tenants, who has been fine for several years, invited his friend/ relative to stay for a temporary period as she was having issues with her landlord.
He did not discuss this with me or the other tenants.

Tenants are of course allowed visitors, including overnight for a day or two ( longer if they are visiting from abroad, etc. it’s pretty flexible).
The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that visitors visit the person, and they should never be left unsupervised in the property or given a key.

Around 6 weeks ago I was at the property for a routine treatment. The visitor was there alone. I had to ask her to leave as harmful chemicals were being used.

I had a chat with the tenant later and he explained it was a one off emergency.

It later transpired after complaints from other tenants and some unexplained damage that she was living in the property.

That was a problem. She had no primary address elsewhere and her presence took the property into the next level of HMO, meaning it needed to be registered.
The penalties for not registering when required are severe.

I told the tenant he needed to tell her to leave.

He did so and was met with a lot of resistance, but eventually she went, only to return in the early hours some days later. He felt he had to let her in.

He asked for my help to get her to leave. She refused, saying the council had told her that I’d have to get a court order to evict her.

Legal advice was that he invited her in and once he told her she was no longer welcome we could change locks when she was out.

She actually went out without a key and whilst she was gone he put her belongings in a locked shed outside, offering to open it when she needed.

That was about a week ago. I thought it was sorted. The calls in the early hours were from my tenant and the police asking if I would agree to her staying the night.

I would have said no and fortunately as they couldn’t reach me she was not allowed in.

This woman clearly has problems. I’d say she is vulnerable, but the same council that was advising her not to leave my property, whilst refusing any sort of practical assistance, would also be the ones taking action against me for running an unlicensed HMO.

The tenant is being bullied by so called friends to let her stay. He is under a lot of pressure but I’ve had to tell him that if he lets her stay I will have to take steps to evict him.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’
I wasn’t expecting to speak to the police at 2-3 am though. Apparently they weren’t happy with me and thought the tenant should be able to take her in.

Yup.

Why do you assume HMOs house people who are of worse character than the local residents? They are the local residents. Just ones that don't have anywhere to live.

Well you sound like you don't know what you are talking about.

Of course the OP is involved, it is her property!

You’re right to not let her stay, she needs specialist help.
But you’re wrong to threaten your existing tenant with eviction, especially as it’s not easy to evict anyone anymore.

Ha ha, I was just coming on to say exactly the same. You couldn't make it up 😂

What BeEagerRubyBird said

But you are clearly not in the OPs position.
Being a landlord is a nightmare, who would do it these days ?
She cannot be responsible for this person. It's not about charity, it's about running a business, keeping her other tenants safe and being landed with severe consequences if she does not.
Ps. Laws are there to protect the whole, not one single loopy individual.

Ah I run mine more like a charity. I think if you're going to provide a basic human need like housing, you kind of have to. Each to their own, though.

You can’t go against the law of your HMO set up, whether or not the police think it’s ’unfair’ is not your concern. Direct the police to the law, junior officers don’t know every aspect of housing and tenancy law, speak to a senior officer at the station, in fact I would go down there and explain the whole situation so it is logged and any further contacts with the police can be directed back to your statement. It might also help to trigger some sort of action for this woman, homeless charity signposting or something like that. I would also write to the council and cc your mp in. You need this out of your concern and put in the hands of the proper authorities. Essentially they are palming her off to you right now an d it’s not your concern to deal with. Your contract is with the council and your tenant, nothing to do with this woman who has somehow now become your concern when she shouldn’t be.

Yep I'd say so. It's not actually for them to have an opinion on whether OP allows someone to stay or not, and if they care that much I'm sure they've all got sofas or floors she could kip on.

Haha
No you don't

Is tenant also vulnerable? Why are they not saying no, as it will jeopardise their tenancy. Yanbu, this person is not your responsibility amd they have taken advantage of your previous acquiescence.

No you don't, what?

I lived in HMOs for years, many people can't afford to live on their own. It's already pressured sharing communal space with strangers, it's not fair on the other tenants if there's an extra person and the related tenant doesn't even want them there - you need to support the tenants, not a random person who is trying to join for free!

The police just wanted a quick solution, they don't know and won't want to know the implications as a landlord. Response officers in my experience push for all sorts of unsuitable solutions for a quick fix especially on a night shift (in social work - agreeing to missing teens staying places they really shouldn't, for ex partners to stay when they shouldn't be at the property, or pushing for them to stay at vulnerable family members homes) It doesn't mean it's your issue to fix - your responsibility is to your actual tenants.

Of course the police weren’t happy because they want you to solve their problem for them. We used to get this with the police at a hostel for homeless residents. The police often turned up late at night and tried to get us to take in people who had no leave to remain in the country and were awaiting removal from the UK. We were a hostel for homeless local residents, not an immigration holding centre. They should have been dealing with it themselves not passing it off on us and because we were not able to prevent them leaving, they would just walk out never to be seen again. The police should have been taking them to a secure immigration centre but didn’t want the hassle. Definitely push back with the police because they will try to tell you that you have to take people in who are not your responsibility.

You do not run an HMO for low income families like a charity. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

OP be firm and repeat to your tenant you will evict him due to breaching his tenancy agreement if she returns to your property. Is your tenant involved with drugs as well? Put a camera on the front door to check who enters. There are agencies who will help the homeless

Can you all take your argument elsewhere and stop derailing the thread?

I’m specifically talking about the single tenant ones let to the council because I have directly experienced it. I’ve also worked in the field of homelessness through my own experience of being homeless and have lived in social housing as a child. I get the issues. The HMOs let to non-council tenants are sadly a totally different kettle of fish. I also have a lot of the non council ones as neighbours and they are fine. Whether you want to admit it or not, the anti social behaviour is coming from the ones let by the council to - mostly - single men. I’ve been threatened with murder against me and my kids for complaining about loud music from 3am. I’ve witnessed a violent attack. I’ve seen drug dealing daily for months. Flytipping, pissing in the street. This is all since the HMOs (private landlord but let to the council). Quiet street, ordinary people before that.

But it wouldn't remain off the books, would it? It's inevitable that one of the other occupants would report it, whereupon you'd start receiving hefty fines. How far does your philanthropy extend?

I would start the procedure to evict him.
He needs to know that this is now going to have him lose his home.
Make sure you have texts spelling out to him she is not allowed to return and you will be starting the procedure to evict him too.

I apologise. I saw HMO in the title and thought I’d take the chance to ask some of the HMO landlords if they feel guilty. Clearly they don’t 😅

I'm sorry, but their is absolutely no comparison between a homeless teen who is a genuine friend and an adult vulnerable woman who has caused damage, caused other tenants to complain and repeatedly comes to police attention. As well as, quite bluntly, being so fucked up that even the council refuse to help her - personally I don't think they should have the right to refuse people who are homeless.

Sadly, I know many such women and whilst I am sad and pissed off for them that they are vulnerable on the street or in otherwise dangerous situations (usually with dangerous men) instead of being supported by statutory agencies there is no way I would let them anywhere near my home unless they had several years of successful mental health, drug and alcohol treatment.

I actually think the male tenant is very vulnerable. The pressure on him to house a vulnerable adult in his own bedroom is extreme, given he doesn't seem to want to and I'm glad OP is in his corner. Those putting pressure on him should back off given none of them are offering for her to share their bedrooms. Very kind of OP to offer to talk to them.

I think you should follow the legal advice you have received and make it clear to the actual tenant that he is jeopardising his own tenancy by repeatedly breaching his tenancy agreement. And signpost the vulnerable woman to Shelter or a local charity that works with homeless people perhaps.

I'm guessing they've picked her up somewhere and trying to get someone to take her off the streets so she's not their problem.

Don't say that critically of the Police they are just trying to get her somewhere safe quickly and easily.

OP you are doing the right thing by supporting your tennant and protecting his home.