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AIBU?

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AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

356 replies

Poster555 · 12/09/2026 08:48

NC for this. I know landlords aren’t always popular here.

I own and manage a few HMO’s in a nearby city. All legal requirements fulfilled, and normally have long term tenants.

I woke this morning to a host of missed calls.
One of the tenants, who has been fine for several years, invited his friend/ relative to stay for a temporary period as she was having issues with her landlord.
He did not discuss this with me or the other tenants.

Tenants are of course allowed visitors, including overnight for a day or two ( longer if they are visiting from abroad, etc. it’s pretty flexible).
The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that visitors visit the person, and they should never be left unsupervised in the property or given a key.

Around 6 weeks ago I was at the property for a routine treatment. The visitor was there alone. I had to ask her to leave as harmful chemicals were being used.

I had a chat with the tenant later and he explained it was a one off emergency.

It later transpired after complaints from other tenants and some unexplained damage that she was living in the property.

That was a problem. She had no primary address elsewhere and her presence took the property into the next level of HMO, meaning it needed to be registered.
The penalties for not registering when required are severe.

I told the tenant he needed to tell her to leave.

He did so and was met with a lot of resistance, but eventually she went, only to return in the early hours some days later. He felt he had to let her in.

He asked for my help to get her to leave. She refused, saying the council had told her that I’d have to get a court order to evict her.

Legal advice was that he invited her in and once he told her she was no longer welcome we could change locks when she was out.

She actually went out without a key and whilst she was gone he put her belongings in a locked shed outside, offering to open it when she needed.

That was about a week ago. I thought it was sorted. The calls in the early hours were from my tenant and the police asking if I would agree to her staying the night.

I would have said no and fortunately as they couldn’t reach me she was not allowed in.

This woman clearly has problems. I’d say she is vulnerable, but the same council that was advising her not to leave my property, whilst refusing any sort of practical assistance, would also be the ones taking action against me for running an unlicensed HMO.

The tenant is being bullied by so called friends to let her stay. He is under a lot of pressure but I’ve had to tell him that if he lets her stay I will have to take steps to evict him.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’
I wasn’t expecting to speak to the police at 2-3 am though. Apparently they weren’t happy with me and thought the tenant should be able to take her in.

OP posts:
Sereine · 13/09/2026 09:33

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 12:27

Ok don't help her then. It's just been my experience that she's more likely to stay away if she has other options.

She's been to the council. Why do you assume that they have not gone through all the options with her?

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 13/09/2026 09:40

The council are telling her to go back and wait for an eviction notice because they don't want to fulfill their legal obligation to house her temporarily while they consider whether they have a duty to house her as a homeless person.

The best thing you could do for her is to write a letter explaining that you've taken legal advice and understand that as the guest of a tenant، eviction proceedigns are not necessary. However, you will take steps to eviction the actual tenant if he continues to let her stay in breach of her tenancy agreement.
Yout tenant can write something explaining that, with regret, he can't allow her to stay any longer.
The guest can then take both letters over to the councils homeless persons unit and request they take a homeless person's application.

The guest can find further info on her housing rights here: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness

Shelter icon

Homelessness advice - Shelter England

Find out about homeless applications, help and housing from the council. Advice if you're at risk of domestic abuse, sleeping rough, sofa surfing or from abroad

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness

Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:44

Blondeshavemorefun · 13/09/2026 09:15

7 other flats so 8 in all

all owned by you ?

tho I thought you said you had 4 and 5 wouid take uou over

or you mean 8 flats in building and yours had 4 bedrooms /tensnts

and means another 7 x 4so another posdible 28 people could let her into missing entrance but she can’t gain entry to your flat of 4 rooms

you need to be clear tothem all that they don’t buzz anyone in

or the flat who buzzes a lot their buzz/lock maybe needs to be dis armed - oh dear seems to be broken and uou fix it at a later date

I only own one large flat within the block.

I can only ask the tenants of other flats for assistance.

I am not sure how cooperative they will be. I am asking them to exclude a lone female from the building.

OP posts:
Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:47

A quick update.

I didn’t hear anything more yesterday.

She was not in the lobby when my neighbour had her early morning walk.

OP posts:
unlimiteddilutingjuice · 13/09/2026 09:50

Oh, Just read that she may not havevrecourse to public funds. That makes it so much harder. Im sorry OP, I dont know what to suggest in that case.

OneLilacHedgehog · 13/09/2026 09:59

HavingABlether · 12/09/2026 09:08

Moving from 4 to 5 does, even if she's not paying rent. What you find hard to believe about the law is, in fact, irrelevant to the law.

No OP, not unreasonable. It sounds like different bits of the council are working against each other instead of a joined up approach. Underfunding will do that. (See also: HMRC). But you are responsible for abiding by the rules set for you, and you had no alternative.

The different bits of the council are not working against each other. It is up to the OP to ensure their property is legal. It's not the councils job to help them keep it legal.

HavingABlether · 13/09/2026 10:18

OneLilacHedgehog · 13/09/2026 09:59

The different bits of the council are not working against each other. It is up to the OP to ensure their property is legal. It's not the councils job to help them keep it legal.

Yes, I agree with you that it's up to OP to operate legally and that'swhy she's done the right thing. What I meant was the council are being unhelpful in telling the woman not to leave given the ramifications.

Pumpkindice · 13/09/2026 10:29

HavingABlether · 13/09/2026 10:18

Yes, I agree with you that it's up to OP to operate legally and that'swhy she's done the right thing. What I meant was the council are being unhelpful in telling the woman not to leave given the ramifications.

The council could only give her advice on what she told them, which was a lie (that she had a joint tenancy agreement to share the room)

HavingABlether · 13/09/2026 11:31

This is true, and makes my point about local government could be more joined up. But let's not derail the thread on what the council could do differently; we agree on the question OP has asked.

Blondeshavemorefun · 13/09/2026 12:20

Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:44

I only own one large flat within the block.

I can only ask the tenants of other flats for assistance.

I am not sure how cooperative they will be. I am asking them to exclude a lone female from the building.

fingwes crossed

LouiseK93 · 13/09/2026 17:55

I think its clear as day why she's having issues with her landlord. Shes the issue.
She may have problems and be vulnerable but she is not going to help herself if people come to her rescue all the time.

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

mylifestory · 13/09/2026 18:03

Im a landlord too.
Do not under any circumstances let this woman stay in your house with your permission for even one minute.
If you do then shes a permitted tenant regardless of paying any rent or not and you will have to go to court to get rid of her.
Shes not your responsibility, you dont know her, she has no contract with you, nothing to do with you!
Get her out, even get an injunction from the police to keep her out. Keep calling them if shes there and they will soon find her an alternative! Just call the police and have her removed, make up what you like, say she has a weapon and you feel scared even if shes in the kitchen making food. Police will come straight away

RocketLollyPolly · 13/09/2026 18:04

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

And whether the OP and other tenants want her there. It sounds like the legalities are just one part of this

mylifestory · 13/09/2026 18:04

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

this is incorrect, it will tip over into hmo 5 pl as they are 2 not related to the other 3!

mylifestory · 13/09/2026 18:06

Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:44

I only own one large flat within the block.

I can only ask the tenants of other flats for assistance.

I am not sure how cooperative they will be. I am asking them to exclude a lone female from the building.

tell them she is a danger to everybody, they will soon keep her out!

Poster555 · 13/09/2026 18:15

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

Whilst I wouldn’t normally disagree with someone who manages hundreds of units, this is not what my local council says.

Their website says an HMO which needs to be registered is 5 or more people forming two or more households. Even if she and the tenant were one household that would make four in total in the property.

The other tenants don’t want her there. They moved into an all male household with a total of 4 tenants, not a mixed one with 5 tenants.

OP posts:
GlobalTravellerbutespeciallyBognor · 13/09/2026 18:26

SethAndReubenTooSendGaloshes · 12/09/2026 09:47

There are loads of women sleeping rough on the streets right now. Why don't you go find a couple and bring them home then? If you don't have a spare room, they can kip on your sofa?

And you would start caring about laws and policies PDQ when the council fined you for running an unregistered HMO and when you had to spend thousands to go to court to evict her before anyone will help her move out and when your existing tenants move out because they can't stick living with her and you can't find anyone else to move in because you've turned your HMO into a de facto homeless shelter!

Edited

Exactly this.
You did the right thing OP.
Even if only for one night, you were at risk of being prosecuted - the police or the council would both have needed to have given you confirmation or clearance it was necessary, required by them and therefore not a breach. Neither would have done so at 3am.

tommyhoundmum · 13/09/2026 18:26

PullTheBricksDown · 12/09/2026 09:37

What had happened in the early hours to result in the police calling you to see if she could stay there? Amazed that they'd do this

You will have to be the bad guy here. Speaking to the 'friends' is a good offer. It's not fair to your other tenants that this person is trying to behave like this.

All part of a welfare visit.

Laura95167 · 13/09/2026 18:26

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:10

Id not throw out a vulnurable woman on the streets, no.

Problem solved @Poster555! She can move to @VointofPiews house.

jdb9803 · 13/09/2026 18:38

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:44

Yeah I probably would. I'd not throw out anyone on the streets if I had the proximity and power to help them. That's not how I have been raised and I don't give a single shit about laws or policies. I care about humans. I'd let her stay off the books.

What about the humans paying rent to live there that don't want her there - do they not count
There are people to help without OP needing to pay a fortune and all the tennants being unhappy

Greenseacat · 13/09/2026 19:19

Landlords who own HMOs, especially 'several HMOs', are parasites as far as I am concerned.

Piling people on into one property and profiteering from the fact that their tenants are on low income and/or vulnerable.

MrsJeanLuc · 13/09/2026 19:20

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:44

Yeah I probably would. I'd not throw out anyone on the streets if I had the proximity and power to help them. That's not how I have been raised and I don't give a single shit about laws or policies. I care about humans. I'd let her stay off the books.

Really?

And how many street people do you have in your house then? They're not hard to find, you have both the proximity and the power.
Let me guess ... none?

And when they piss or vomit on the sofa (because they're drunk) and bring illegal substances into your home, you'd be ok with that would you?

As someone said above, kind of you to be so generous with other people's stuff 🙄

ThreadGuardDog · 13/09/2026 19:26

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:44

Yeah I probably would. I'd not throw out anyone on the streets if I had the proximity and power to help them. That's not how I have been raised and I don't give a single shit about laws or policies. I care about humans. I'd let her stay off the books.

And when the other tenants get arsy and report you to the council, who then come looking for you ? What then ? OP is running a business not a charity. The council clearly don’t know their own rules if they’re the ones telling this poor woman OP would have to get a court order to evict.

ThreadGuardDog · 13/09/2026 19:27

Greenseacat · 13/09/2026 19:19

Landlords who own HMOs, especially 'several HMOs', are parasites as far as I am concerned.

Piling people on into one property and profiteering from the fact that their tenants are on low income and/or vulnerable.

And without them councils wouldn’t be able to cope - as evidenced by the totally incorrect advice this poor woman was given.