AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

[Poster555]

NC for this. I know landlords aren’t always popular here.

I own and manage a few HMO’s in a nearby city. All legal requirements fulfilled, and normally have long term tenants.

I woke this morning to a host of missed calls.
One of the tenants, who has been fine for several years, invited his friend/ relative to stay for a temporary period as she was having issues with her landlord.
He did not discuss this with me or the other tenants.

Tenants are of course allowed visitors, including overnight for a day or two ( longer if they are visiting from abroad, etc. it’s pretty flexible).
The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that visitors visit the person, and they should never be left unsupervised in the property or given a key.

Around 6 weeks ago I was at the property for a routine treatment. The visitor was there alone. I had to ask her to leave as harmful chemicals were being used.

I had a chat with the tenant later and he explained it was a one off emergency.

It later transpired after complaints from other tenants and some unexplained damage that she was living in the property.

That was a problem. She had no primary address elsewhere and her presence took the property into the next level of HMO, meaning it needed to be registered.
The penalties for not registering when required are severe.

I told the tenant he needed to tell her to leave.

He did so and was met with a lot of resistance, but eventually she went, only to return in the early hours some days later. He felt he had to let her in.

He asked for my help to get her to leave. She refused, saying the council had told her that I’d have to get a court order to evict her.

Legal advice was that he invited her in and once he told her she was no longer welcome we could change locks when she was out.

She actually went out without a key and whilst she was gone he put her belongings in a locked shed outside, offering to open it when she needed.

That was about a week ago. I thought it was sorted. The calls in the early hours were from my tenant and the police asking if I would agree to her staying the night.

I would have said no and fortunately as they couldn’t reach me she was not allowed in.

This woman clearly has problems. I’d say she is vulnerable, but the same council that was advising her not to leave my property, whilst refusing any sort of practical assistance, would also be the ones taking action against me for running an unlicensed HMO.

The tenant is being bullied by so called friends to let her stay. He is under a lot of pressure but I’ve had to tell him that if he lets her stay I will have to take steps to evict him.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’
I wasn’t expecting to speak to the police at 2-3 am though. Apparently they weren’t happy with me and thought the tenant should be able to take her in.

Drastic action is needed as Landlords are now PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE. The tenant who invited her in isn't really the problem; the problem is that she's trespassing . I Should adjust His RENT accordingly as ' A TWO PERSON ROOM ( DOUBLE)..this should make him see sense.

While you sound a decent law abiding HMO Landlord this is why people are up in arms and don’t want to live near HMOs as they can attract more issues than a standard house and family and the Councils don’t care.
I have no advice other than good luck.

Hopefully the other tenants will refuse to let her in if they come home before her friend does.

Fortunately he shouldn’t be able to get a copy of the security fob as these are only (legally) available from the freeholder, and can only be requested by me as leaseholder

I'm familiar with how it works, @Poster555, but again you're talking about what should happen, and if your tenant cared at all about what he should be doing he'd never have lied to you about her living there for a while, or let her in again when you'd specifically asked him not to

Good luck though - unless his guest finds someone else to scrounge off (and it's notable that noone else in her community have offered so far) I've a horrible feeling you'ere going to need it

You need to evict your tenant, and quickly. He’s the one who’s caused this by allowing her in. The end.

How do tenants get in without a security fob? Is it just your tenants in the building or other occupiers too? You need to be careful that her behaviour does not cause an asb report for your property.

Of course they matter, but she is not currently there.

If I do need to go down the legal route to evict the tenant I have to give him notice, then my local court has a 9-12 months backlog and due to the Renters Rights Act I will probably have to use a discretionary ground, with no guarantee of success.

The threat of eviction is not a credible one to use to attempt to moderate behaviour, and the process is so time consuming that it doesn’t serve much purpose.

Why haven’t you called the police now? Someone who doesn’t live in that building is trying to gain access illegally! Know she doesn’t live there and has been told no she can’t go in! Only way to deal with this is police every single time she tries this!!!!

The tenants each have a security fob to gain access to the building.
There are 7 other flats.
At some times during the day access is possible via a ‘trade’ button.
People often follow others in without using the fob.
I can’t really control her behaviour but I hope she will soon give up.

This woman sounds like an absolute nightmare. I have a horrible feeling the only way you are going to get rid of her is by getting rid of your tenant.

Sounds like your actual tenant needs a legit reason to go against his friends who are putting pressure on him and his conscience. I would speak to him and explain you will have to put in writing a warning that if he was to let her stay then he will be in breach of his tenancy and you’d have to service him notice. That may help him get out of the tricky situation his so called friends are putting him in. I’m sure those who are pressuring him haven’t offered or wants her to sleep on their sofa.

Hope you turn a blind eye to the council fine when it drops in the post and turn a blind eye to the court summons as well.

Could you ask the other flats to be vigilant to stop tailgaters? And those in your flat need to be really careful when they enter and exit that she doesn’t try to push her way in. And the trade button needs to be suspended…

My tenants have indicated that they will not let her in. They know she was trying to get in as she was using the buzzer to our flat.

I will ask them to be particularly careful in case she manages to get into the hallway and surprises them.

I doubt any of them would physically restrain her if she pushed past, but if she gets in by force I would ask the police to remove her. ( I don’t know if they would).

I will talk to the other occupants and ask them to be vigilant, but one flat in particular has an awful lot of visitors and if anyone buzzes their flat they normally just let them in, so not sure they would agree or remember.

The freeholder operates the security system and they won’t suspend the trade button as it’s used by post men, etc. The trade button operates in the morning Monday to Saturday, so fortunately it’s not currently an issue.

I doubt any of them would physically restrain her if she pushed past, but if she gets in by force I would ask the police to remove her. ( I don’t know if they would).

@Poster555 Yes, that's another possible issue. What if they try to stop her entering and she accuses them of assault? If she does manage to get in and stay, she could even accuse them of far worse - you mention that they're all men and it would be her word against theirs.

I bet the woman has exhausted all help provided by friends/family/authorities previously. Probabably an absolute nightmare, and due to her behaviour has alienated everyone once close to her, and is fast running out of options, so has attached herself to your tenant, who may have initially wanted to help, but then realised she’s beyond help. As other posters have said, time to be firm and tell him that his tenancy is also at risk unless he complies with your instructions to keep her out of the building.

It tell the other flats there’s a security risk as that might encourage them to remember.

Can you tell the freeholder there is someone trying to gain access to the building and ask what they will do to ensure they can’t? They could give the postman and milkman a fob.

Then you would be in a whole world of shit and landing yourself with thousands of pounds in fines and potential prosecution for running an illegal hmo ! Absolutely no body is going to risk that for a stranger , lets not pretend you would.
Have you been living under a rock? theres literally loads of documentaries about people like you that have taken people in and ended up being kicked out of their own home by the freeloader , theyve ended up homeless ,in debt and completely and utterly fuxked because its taken years to get them out .

She needs to speak to her local homeless prevention team at the council. With the renters right act you would find it very difficult to lawfully evict the tenant who has allowed her to stay- especially as he is working with you. It isn’t fair on the other tenants either so you will have to stick to your guns.

Definitely do not let her stay. Our Council are an absolute nightmare and would definitely prosecute the landlord and seek to rescind the HMO licence, thereby making all your existing tenants homeless anyway. They would also then rely on the ‘fit and proper person’ criteria to rescind your other HMO licences.
I think you need to write to all of the tenants explaining about the HMO licence and that they cannot allow the woman back and the reason why. I would also write to the HMO Unit and cc the Homeless Team explaining the situation - she is not, nor ever has been a tenant, the incorrect advice given by the Homeless Unit, the steps you have taken to ensure the property does not go over the limit.
a family member had this - one of the tenants claimed he moved his girlfriend in, without the landlord’s knowledge or permission, and after they left (end of tenancy, all amicable) went to some renters no win no fee outfit and made a claim for a rent repayment order of a full years rent.

7 other flats so 8 in all

all owned by you ?

tho I thought you said you had 4 and 5 wouid take uou over

or you mean 8 flats in building and yours had 4 bedrooms /tensnts

and means another 7 x 4so another posdible 28 people could let her into missing entrance but she can’t gain entry to your flat of 4 rooms

you need to be clear tothem all that they don’t buzz anyone in

or the flat who buzzes a lot their buzz/lock maybe needs to be dis armed - oh dear seems to be broken and uou fix it at a later date

Either way if keeps trying call police every time that she’s loitering or trying to gain entry illegally

How would you do that in a situation like this where the council has no duty to house the person concerned?