AIBU to feel upset after my meeting with my manager?

[derFutterneid]

I have been working somewhere for nearly 10 years, after being a SAHM. I loved my job, but the company has gone through many restructures and it has changed completely.

Over the past 2 years we have had many redundancies and people not replaced. As a result my workload has massively increased. On top of this many of my colleagues have sought out doctors notes, and other things to exempt them from certain tasks. I have been given this extra work too. This has caused me a lot of stress. It also affects others and a few of my work colleagues are now on antidepressants or have left. Our staff turnover is horrendous. People are leaving with no job to go to. Everyone is unhappy and it is a toxic environment.

Anyway, I had my appraisal and it went OK, but afterwards I realised I had been downgraded. I asked some of my colleagues, not directly, but they confirmed they received higher. I was really upset about this, as I'd say I was one of a few people who do the lions share. I even manage the department when there is no manager. Since my boss is on holiday I asked the next level up (it is usual to escalate to this person) about my appraisal.

What then followed has really shocked me. I was told that it had been agreed amongst them to downgrade me as whilst my work was excellent and appreciated, I had a bad attitude and my behaviours are not aligning with what they list as what we should be demonstrating. Apparently people say hello to me, and I have my head down and barely acknowledge them or I am in a mood and people tread on eggshells around me. I am a thorn in the managers side, and I bring problems to the manager but not solutions. I am abrupt. I was totally shocked by this because in the 30 years that I have been working, and the many appraisals I have had, I have never had this feedback. In fact I have constantly been told I am very popular and respected and a go to person if someone needs help. I have never worked with this manager. It felt like a character assassination.

Some points;

I asked for some specific examples, but they could not name one.

I have never had a complaint made about me by a customer, or by a colleague in 10 years.

Apparently I am too outspoken, but they specifically asked me to join a group of staff to talk about branch issues. I asked to step down from this and was asked to stay as my opinions are valued. After one meeting the head of the company told my manager that they were really impressed with how I professionally handled myself. Seeing me upset, a friendly manager told me that I had pissed off one of the managers by questioning something, and that the company ask for my opinion, but don't always like the answers.

In this company, I have had at least 18 appraisals and mid years, and not once have I ever had feedback on my attitude. There is no history of this whatsoever.

Now, I am not disputing my attitude and behaviours. However I asked them to put it into context. I am covering a very large portion of the workload. I have asked to reduce my hours, and change my days (there is one week a month where I work 7 out of 8 days in a row). I come home stressed out and crying. I have raised concerns numerous times about my workload and improving my work life balance. These have all been rejected as we are short staffed and it doesn't suit the business. I asked to move department and they have said no. So, with that in mind, yes I look stressed, I look unhappy, I may not be skipping along saying hello to everyone. However, no one has complained about me, neither staff member or client.

Apparently they have observed this about me for a while, and my manager should have addressed it with me, but they did not. Even though I spent an hour and a half in my appraisal. Apparently they are too scared of me. I am in my 50's and they are in their late 20's.

FYI this is a minimum wage job. I do have another PT job which I can increase the hours. I don't really need the money, but I saved and invested all that I earned and felt I was contributing to my household and our future.

This manager suggested that I get my manager and a couple of other managers who also work along side me in a room and they tell me bluntly about my attitude and behaviours, I can then go away, reflect on it, and come back acting differently. I don't really like the sound of this!!!

My DH is not being very supportive about me leaving. He says I shouldn't till I get another job, but I just don't see how I can stay if this is what they think of me. My adult DC say that I am going to end up having a heart attack or stroke and it is not worth it.

AIBU to be upset, or is this kind of feedback normal?

What would you advise me?

What's stopping me leaving;

The money was invested and it feels good.
I like to be busy, and have structure to my week.
I'm in my 50's, it'll be hard to get another job. However, I do have another job that I enjoy and I can develop (I am a pilates instructor)

There are other ways of doing that without the OP herself having to go through a grievance procedure (and a grievance procedure isn't pretty)

I'm glad you've resigned. It's such a relief to bite the bullet. Onwards and upwards now.

Why is this even a dilemma @derFutterneid ?

You hate how toxic the company has become.
You are overworked.
You are unhappy at work.
You don't need the money.
You have another job and can increase your hours.

What is the hand wringing for?! Life is too short - just quit!

I would definitely write to the sympathetic high-up you mentioned, with your analysis of what is going wrong with the organisation and what brought you to this point. Whether or not they choose to do anything about it is up to them.

But I would not do any whistle-blowing, or anything that could just make you look vindictive (unless it’s a question of safety of some sort).

Not sure about the accident at work. If they’re not going to ever give you a proper reference you have nothing to lose, but on the other hand it does risk making you look vindictive (or why would you not have made the claim in the first place, though I can see you could say that you felt you owed them loyalty but because of their behaviour that no longer applies).

Good luck with your fresh start!

I'd be inclined to make a big deal of the menopause thing and at least let them think they're vulnerable to a sexism claim. A complaint that you're being treated this way, after a long career with nothing but positive appraisals because you're a woman of a certain age.

Have a bit of fun with it and/or do some good for those who follow, but it depends if you feel up for that because it's unlikely to help you personally.

The best thing for you is probably to go sick, aim to negotiate an exit payment and concentrate on your pilates.

Get your union involved if you have one.

As PP said, you need to do it ASAP whilst you are still employed. I'd cc it to the senior person youd mentioned before too!

I’d pursue the accident thing if there is a financial reward, but only if you have the heart for it. Leave the stress to the lawyers.

Get an exit interview.

But otherwise just look forward to a year from now when this is just a memory. It’s damned shame but - and I generally hate this phrase - it is what it is.

As someone in same position years ago, you've definitely done the right thing.
As for all the follow ups around making complaints etc. They will make no difference with an organisation like this. It sounds like they are going to be closed or merged into some other business soon anyway. All the things you described are typical of an organisation in its last stages of desperate survival.

But pursue the accident claim but at arms length. Let your representatives deal with it and give it no head space day to day. There's so many people who work hard and diligently and get screwed over if it suites a company or a particular manager or strategy. We are told very few employers genuinely care about their employees but we don't really believe it until we find out for ourselves. It's true though.
Time for a new stage in life. Good luck.

My DD 22 calling me to say she's submitted her dissertation for her MSc. A culmination of watching her take her own path and striving to be the best version of herself.

It was overwhelming thinking about the little girl who didn't make a sound (apart from what felt like constant crying ) until she was around 9 months old, didn't really interact with other children until primary school, despite lots of groups and friends, has cognitive processing challenges and generally found the education system very difficult.

So very proud and in awe of her

Well done for leaving !

My friend became a fitness coach in her 50s. She didn’t go to uni to do it, she went on some Les Mills(?) courses and Pilates and yoga courses. She used to work in finance! She absolutely loves her new career.

Best of luck OP

@derFutterneid I do think there is a direct age-ism link here. For the first time in my life I now feel old. It is just a number as well which is the sad thing.

Is it ageism or is it the difference in ages? Maybe they’re linked, but this 20 something manager I’d guess doesn’t have elderly parents to look after, or children, or perhaps even a house to keep up, and is less likely (not impossible) to be dealing with their own health concerns or the poor health of relatives or any of the million things an older woman is juggling outside of the workplace. Simply because of the circumstances that occur as we get older.

more on the fact that “is this it now? I’m a 50 something post menopausal woman and my opinions are not welcome. I’m a dinosaur and the younger generation do not want me on their team”.

I suspect that your opinions would still not be valued even if you were 20 something.

No offence to your DH, but I’ve rarely witnessed effective management. It’s no wonder to me that many businesses struggle and there’s low productivity in this country. A big reason for ineffective management is because managers cannot cope themselves with having uncomfortable conversations (there’s research on this). Uncomfortable to them of course.

It takes a confidant and intelligent manager to appreciate negative feedback and it takes a secure and emotionally intelligent manager to see when their employees are struggling and intervene with appropriate support.

This just so rarely happens in this country. Hopefully you can find an alternative outlet for your abilities even if that’s starting your own small Pilates related business or volunteering. Some organisation will appreciate you.

I see nothing but good news for you here

• You're out of a toxic environment (you were clearly smarter than your managers - they felt threatened). The situation was not going to get better. It's a good thing it came to a head and tipped the balance into you leaving, or you might still be (miserably) there for years to come
• You're able to put your energy into building something you really care about with the pilates. Exciting, and a great thing to model for your kids.
• It all comes at a time when your kids need your support around A-levels - a really good time to get that balance back. You need to be able to absorb their anxiety at this stage, and you would not be able to do that if you were already a ball of tension yourself from work. They probably won't be living with you for much longer - enjoy this time with them.
• You can potentially make the accident claim and get a lump sum, which you were otherwise nervous to pursue
• Also - you are mortgage free and surely the point of doing that massive financial push in your 30s was to give yourself freedom and flexibility at this stage - you have successfully created a life for yourself where you don't need to be trapped by a job that makes you miserable.

Congratulations! By every possible metric, you are the winner in this situation.

@derFutterneid The manager who insulted me originally waked past and gave an overly cheery wave and hello, so they definitely know. That really annoyed me.

Definitely would annoy me too. I would not want this inept manager who can’t cope with constructive input herself to tell herself that you were the problem. I hope you say something to her before you leave. To let her know that it was her appraisal that directly led to your resignation. And to suggest that she would benefit from further management training.

All said calmly and in a matter of fact tone.

I would absolutely leave as soon as possible. They don't appreciate you. You're doing donkey work. You're not treated fairly. I'd leave even just for the sake of them finding out what it's like trying to get someone else to do all of the work that you are doing

I just want to post to say well done to the @derFutterneid . Please go and enjoy your career as a Pilates instructor. I love my current mature instructor; she really understands how our body works and how to get the best results.

As a fellow 50+-year-old menopausal woman, I found that my tolerance level when having to deal with the shit that young managers feel is necessary for them to do their job was very low. We are invisible, difficult to work with, have an opinion, miserable and many other things, according to them, or maybe we have just reached the point in life when we have done it all before and can't be arsed to do it again.

I finally quit back in March, giving them 6 weeks' notice. My colleagues supported me, HR sent an email, but the management didn't really even acknowledge that I was leaving to the extent that they didn't tell the wider team, ask for a handover or even say goodbye. I just faded away. It was quite extraordinary, as I wasn't an NMW employee; I was a project stakeholder with 10 years' experience in the department. Apparently, it was very interesting in the immediate aftermath, as the idiot young manager didn't have a clue.

So sorry the workplace you have given so much time and effort to has treated you like this. As many say, people don't leave jobs, they leave bad managers.

Honestly I would try not to put too much more of your personal time and effort into fighting with them. They don't deserve your energy and expertise. It is definitely easier said than done, I had several bad experiences in a previous job that led me to leaving the organisation. I wanted to raise it, I didn't want anyone else to go through what I did. But was given some good advice, that did I want to focus on the past, which I wouldn't get any benefit from and would be very emotionally draining (the complaints process with that organisation was notoriously terrible to endure), or move on and concentrate on my future, my family, my next career. I did send one email, to a senior member I thought I trusted, I got no reply. It was a waste of time. The grievance process would have been 10 times worse and not gone anywhere. It is frustrating, but if they wouldn't listen to you while you are there, is it likely to change with your final send off?

Absolutely go after the accident compensation, that is different. It is safety related and there is financial benefit from it. But the other side, is there any benefit to you? Be selfish, concentrate on yourself, and don't give them the gift of anymore of your time and effort that you aren't being compensated for.

Good luck!

Never forget , it’s not you it’s them and their shit show of a company
I hope your Pilates sessions go well and you can put that crap behind you

Why bother? You know it will achieve absolutely nothing. You're leaving in 10 days, just go in, go through the motions, and leave with your head held high.

You're doing the right thing OP. Smile and wave back at your manager. I've worked at places where you could tell who was leaving before any announcements were made because they suddenly became so much happier.

I would leave, I would also contact GP and explain this has effected your mental wellbeing - that way you could provide a resignation letter with immediate effect, if you want to of course.

I have been in a similar position before whereby I resigned immediately after a work review whereby I was unfairly criticised yet given an even bigger work load - manager actually backtracked and tried to chase me back in to further discuss it but I had already decided!

Have been watching your post , I work as a promoter in a supermarket doing promotions, putting out posters etc. I’ve worked for my company a while . It’s not guaranteed work every week but I can pick and choose what jobs I want to do and they pay over the minimum wage , around 13-15 pounds an hour . Maybe a job like mine would supplement your Pilates job? Google tactical promotional work or go to a website called stuck 4 staff .
The staff in the supermarket I mostly work in all seem to be in a similar situation , underpaid, undervalued, doing 3 people’s jobs and they get a title of section manager but no raise in pay just expected to manage . Moral is very low there and I feel so sorry for them . I’m so lucky to have the job I do , I live it and my online managers and the company as a whole are completely supportive .
You’ve done the right thing . Take a few days to relax and destress , you are going to feel meh after leaving a company you’ve worked for for years , even if they did treat you bad . Hope it all goes well for you

An appraisal really isn’t the forum to deal with what seems to be a disciplinary matter. They are way out of line doing this. If they have a gripe they need to use the proper procedures to deal with it including guidance and mentoring if necessary.
As you have been there some time it may be they are trying to avoid a redundancy payment by manoeuvring you to leave voluntarily.
This is a horrible position to be in, I’m sorry. I’ve been there myself and 10 years on (I retired) I still have bad dreams. Don’t let the trauma get that bad. I hope it works out for you. X

Contact ACAS.

Put your feet up, do no work, do life admin, Christmas shopping and drink lots of tea