To not want to spend more money on horses?

[tommyknocker1982]

My wife and I are at loggerheads on this, so I'm looking for outside opinions...

Bit of background - we're in our 40's and both work, and we have 2 daughters, 15 and 12. I don't ride but my wife and daughters do. We bought our first horse a couple of years ago. I was firmly against it, but my family appealed constantly, and my wife provided a breakdown of the costs, which turned out to be a wild underestimate.

A year later, that horse had some health issues and my wife said he wasn't suitable for our youngest daughter. So, I switched to work full time and we bought a second horse. Since then, the horse related costs have escalated endlessly (vets, van hire, trips to the saddlery...) and I'd guess we now spend around £25k a year on horses.

I've agreed to getting a 4x4 and horse trailer, but the next ask is that my wife wants us to move to a "house with land", so that she can keep the horses at home.

And this is where we clash. Acres of land in the south east is expensive, and would mean either moving into a worse house than we have now, or taking out a huge mortgage. I don't want an equestrian lifestyle. I don't want the extra maintenance, I don't like the smell, and I don't want to live in a rural backwater so I can have animals staring at me through my kitchen window. Am I being unreasonable to say "no, I don't want to spend any more on horses"?

I Am Being Unreasonable - I should agree to my wife's demand. Live a life I don't want, and probably face more escalating costs even with them living with us at home.

I Am NOT Being Unreasonable - I say "enough is enough". We spend enough already and need to draw a line under it.

It’s your wife’s £25,000 hobby, the DC being encouraged to do it, and enjoying it, is secondary and could cost a fraction of £25,000!

I do think she shouldn't be pointing to other husbands who apparently do a better job when she has someone who is already very supportive. That's not on.

I would guess it needed iv vet sedation which with call out etc could be near on 150, sheath cleaning can be about £50.

I'm lucky that my young gelding only needs the distraction of a Licket for me to be able to clean his :D

I meant the kids!

I'm getting really angry and upset on your behalf at this latest update.

She has the gall to criticise you by comparing you to other husbands who " support their wife's hobby", unlike you?!

What a bitch.

So £25k a year, an extra working day a week, help with horse care, and driving to competitions doesn't count as support?!

Honestly, OP, I would be getting my ducks in a row at this point, and you're only at the 'quite upset' stage.

I would be fuming.

She is selfish, demanding, and manipulative.

There's no way I would be entertaining any more talk of a house move to the country, or any plans that involve more horses or horse-related expense unless she's going to fund it and do any extra care associated with it.

There's supporting your daughters' and wife's hobby, then there's leaving 'hobby' behind and veering into 'obsession' territory. And that never ends well.

Out of interest, what hobby or hobbies do you have, how much do they cost, and how supportive is your wife of them? Either currently, or pre-horse.

We have land and animals and have holidays and spare money, the biggest problem is the dog who can’t go to kennels!

Your wife is taking the piss claiming you are not supportive enough! You are paying for her hobby! My DH does ZERO with the horses and only does the jobs on the land he wants to do. He supported me by paying for my horse when I gave up work to look after our kids full time for a few years, asking me and the kids "how did you get on?" when we come back after a lesson, hack or show and pretending to be interested for five minutes before wandering off and he has never, ever complained about them or the money they cost, bless him. Although he did insist we stop talking about them non-stop! 😆My kids had me supporting them in the hobby, they didn't need him as well. He has brought different things to the table as a parent.

However, I have a horse budget, both for buying them and keeping them, that I do not go over. I will never be a serious competitor because I simply cannot afford it. I recognise that I am bloody lucky to have horses in my life at all and cut my cloth accordingly.

People's personal situations are different. Our dogs couldn't go to kennels and yes we could probably find someone to dog sit, goat sit and chicken sit but the goose is an absolute no no and the goose protects her ducks and ponies so no one is getting anywhere near those.

Some people have help and support to look after animals or can hire in help for things like holidays which again is a cost if you haven't got friends and family who can do it.

Your update - the fact she’s only had this hobby 2 years AND only looks after the horses herself 2 days a week - is actually bringing this, in my opinion, into irresponsible territory.

She doesn’t know what she doesn’t know. She absolutely doesn’t know enough to provide full equine care 24/7! She’s fallen into that middle ground where she has enough knowledge to be dangerous because she thinks she’s a fully fledged equestrian.

I’ve owned horses and ponies for 7 years, I say I know nothing but that’s obviously not true. I know considerably more than the average person, and I’d bet my house I know more than your wife, and I would not dream of having the horses in my full time care.

This made me laugh SO HARD. This is why I’m terrified of geese!!!
I am screenshotting this as evidence of why geese are the next banned species on my husband’s dream small holding list!

Blackmail is never pretty.

I spend a lot more than £25k a year on horses, and have a totally non horsey DH. He absolutely doesn't care what I spend on them and only has a vague idea of how many we have. However, he doesn't do any horse care and doesn't have competing priorities that can't be funded because of them. In your situation, I think you need a proper conversation about how much of your joint income can realistically go on horses and look at how to make best use of this amount. If you let them, horses will take every penny you earn, especially if your DCs want to compete.

I also think that your DW and DDs should try DIY for a while before any thoughts of an equestrian property. If their horses are at full livery, they will have no idea of the commitment of looking after horses themselves. Also, as others have said, before going all in, you need to consider what will happen if DDs go to uni or when academic pressure kicks in with GCSEs and A-levels. Many DCs give up horses or stop for a few years when there are competing demands on their time.

@tommyknocker1982 your wife is in a shiny rainbow bubble - time to burst it!

As I & others have said, first stop would be DIY livery. Next is setting a realistic budget for competitions, horse box hire, enty fees and any extras that is needed. Budget can be some (not all of the) savings by switching livery. If they don't want to switch, there simply won't be a budget. This is also a vital skill for your girls to learn. Sadly we can't have everything we desire!

Then have a chat with oldest DD... where does she see herself after GCSE's? Post 18? Please let her have dreams... it will come tumbling down quicker than you think. But whatever it is, that should also be a consideration for the families future with horses.

This is coming from someone who does compete in K9 sports. It's not as pricey as horses, but still, in your home, like in mine, the animals take up a lot of time and money...

i feel for you op, I have 1 horse which I pay everything myself. He is on a relatively cheap diy yard and I’m not a big earner.
I would like to move out of Greater London and move to the country but not land to keep him (I come from farming background in Ireland).
The reasons being is the maintenance and cost but most of all I’d prefer a livery yard as I’d think your own place would be very isolating. I don’t have a horse box or trailer either.

OPi have no advice other than just to say you sound like a lovely dad and a very understanding husband. I have no doubt that you will end up moving and having horses living in your back garden because you love your children so much.

It's not a bad thing. You'll never regret being such a good dad, even if you end up knee deep in horse sh*t!

Out of interest, putting money aside, how much time do you have for your husband?
can you easily go out/ holiday together?

In classic MN speak you don’t have a horse problem, you have a wife problem

money aside, she is selfishly expecting you to fit in with a lifestyle entirely centred around her hobby, it isn’t Padel once a week, she wants you to make her hobby your marriage

she doesn’t give a fuck about you

Not a lot (if you mean time to spend with him) but I think it suits him that I’m busy with work and horses so he is in very little danger of being chivvied to do things he isn’t interested in. We can go on holiday if we plan ahead but do so pretty rarely now DCs are grown up.

I've not read through all the comments so sorry if someone has already suggested this. If the horse is in full livery for 5 days, would it not be worth loaning the horse out for a few days a week.. It would give the horse some TLC throughout the week and also a good way of recouping some of the costs each month

How can she insinuate you're unsupportive when you pay for this including for her horse and you work and extra day to do so?! You say you earn the most and maybe your hourly rate is higher than hers, but you also work one day more than her and the sole reason for you doing that is to pay for the horses! So saying you earn more so you pay more doesn't really add up. Fair would be more like both of you working 4 days a week, paying half the cost of the DC's one horse shared between them and your wife using her disposable income to pay for her own horse.

If that was unaffordable, what usually happens is the children have a horse and the mother doesn't, sacrificing her desires for her kids. Or sometimes it's got around by having two horse-shares/part-loans on the same yard, either one for each DC or one for mum and one for the DC. If finances are tight 5 day livery is often the first thing to go.

There's people spending their last penny on training clinics and competing with a 17yr old fucked 4x4 that sounds like an aircraft and is held together with silver-tape and prayers, a trailer that's mostly made of bale-string and rust with a "new" floor consisting of that bit of chipboard that's been languishing in their uncles garage for a decade, working a part time job as well as their full time one, teaching their mates kids cash in hand on the side on their one day off, and even they haven't got 5 day livery! Despite the fact they could sorely use it.

Full or part livery is what people have when they're well off enough to afford it, usually because they have a career job that often means working late or working away and so getting to the stables and complying with their rules regarding opening hours or turnout times can be impractical.

The vast majority of horse owners are on DIY livery and rarely, if ever, compete - due to finances and time.

Seems there's a bit of "keeping up with the Jones's" going on with your wife. If you were on a typical bin-end DIY yard, you'd be seen as the posh rich ones and there'd be nobody much for her to compare herself against and find herself wanting. As it is, I suspect you're maybe on a yard that doesn't even do DIY livery and are surrounded by families who are financially far better off than you.

My Mum used to say you can't get annulments for cricket.

Unfortunately your family love horses. It's a way of life. I have several friends who are equestrians. One owns a Livery now...

My FB is filled with memes about how their husbands wish they had expensive handbags or shoes or a drug habit. It is seriously expensive and a lifestyle choice. Your DW might not have realised this when starting out but is now firmly entrenched in a lifestyle that she and DDs adore.

What you have to decide is your place in that and whether it's what you want too. Sadly no one can make that choice for you. You do seem to be the cash cow for their lifestyle choices. The question is whether you're okay with that or whether you get a cold sweat and a sick feeling every time you see a bill.

By the way OP, it's five. That's the number of horses you'll have if you own your own land.

Or six, if someone accidentally buys a BOGOF and you get a surprise foal, which is of course amazingly cute and you definitely can't sell and besides, "it doesn't cost anything" except three years of keeping before you can ride it

There's the three they ride, because they want one each and can't possibly share.

Then there's the retired one. There's always a retired one, nobody PTS for practical reasons when they have their own land because it feels mean when they're "not costing anything" except a second mortgage in vet fees, special shoeing and feed.

Then there's the one bought to keep the retired one company when the other three are out, because it freaks out when left alone and a spare is handy anyway in case one goes lame. Besides, you've already got so many what's one more when "it doesn't really cost anything"? except the rent for the field from the farmer next door because you've expanded out of your own place.

To be fair moving from. DIY to at home was a leap even for me and I’ve ridden for 40 years and owned for 20.

DH will hold a lead rope (and look worried) if needed

@PatchworkCow that all sounds horribly familiar (though you have forgotten the grown out of ponies that have become family members and aren’t going anywhere). And yet every spring I still browse the stallion websites just in case we decide to breed that year.