To not want to spend more money on horses?

[tommyknocker1982]

My wife and I are at loggerheads on this, so I'm looking for outside opinions...

Bit of background - we're in our 40's and both work, and we have 2 daughters, 15 and 12. I don't ride but my wife and daughters do. We bought our first horse a couple of years ago. I was firmly against it, but my family appealed constantly, and my wife provided a breakdown of the costs, which turned out to be a wild underestimate.

A year later, that horse had some health issues and my wife said he wasn't suitable for our youngest daughter. So, I switched to work full time and we bought a second horse. Since then, the horse related costs have escalated endlessly (vets, van hire, trips to the saddlery...) and I'd guess we now spend around £25k a year on horses.

I've agreed to getting a 4x4 and horse trailer, but the next ask is that my wife wants us to move to a "house with land", so that she can keep the horses at home.

And this is where we clash. Acres of land in the south east is expensive, and would mean either moving into a worse house than we have now, or taking out a huge mortgage. I don't want an equestrian lifestyle. I don't want the extra maintenance, I don't like the smell, and I don't want to live in a rural backwater so I can have animals staring at me through my kitchen window. Am I being unreasonable to say "no, I don't want to spend any more on horses"?

I Am Being Unreasonable - I should agree to my wife's demand. Live a life I don't want, and probably face more escalating costs even with them living with us at home.

I Am NOT Being Unreasonable - I say "enough is enough". We spend enough already and need to draw a line under it.

We have the land and the animals. What we don't have are holidays, time to ourselves, freedom to do things on the spur of the moment. Nights out ( milking at 9 screws that up) oh and spare money, we are doing well to break even as i know a lot of people aren't now.

Your wife and daughters need to understand the reality and that means they need to do DIY for 12 months before property hunting.

Also £25k on horses? My horse with livery costs, trimmer, food, vet bills costs me on average about £500 a month on average. Some months it’s only £400, sometimes more like £600. That’s £6k a year.

I think your wife needs accept you just don’t have the funds for this lifestyle. I can genuinely see the appeal but it costs loads.

I think you should say ‘look let’s carry on with the livery until they go to uni. Then let’s see where we are with work, the house, all the university costs. The girls could move, meet boyfriends and get careers and it’s old muggings here picking up horse shit in the depths of winter in a mud clogged field and a mortgage round my neck.’

Maybe in ten years you’ll get inheritances and that’s when you can up-sticks for the country.

Before you could even ever think about having them at home she would need to drop to full diy. 2 days a week is part timer stuff.

Horses are expensive and addictive. She also needs to go back to full time to take some of the load of paying for them more as well.

As someone who has done exactly what your wife is pushing you to do, I wouldn't.

In our family, myself and DDs ride, DH does not. We decided to buy a place with land when we became unhappy with being on a livery yard (nothing but aggro) and were falling out of love with the place we lived in (tourist area where behaviour was becoming more and more antisocial). So we were already thinking of a move when we decided to buy a place with land. BUT - we are both self employed and work from home, so no commute, no family as we do not originally come from this country, with no ties we were able to move to a much cheaper rural area and actually became mortgage free overnight, so a HUGE financial benefit. We have plenty of land so our horses live out 24/7 (the laziest way to keep them!) and DH enjoys country life. He enjoys doing jobs on the land and the yard the weekend (he doesn't do any horsey jobs) and we have enough cash to pay people to help us out when needed. We are keeping four at home for the same price as one on full livery. We live close enough to a city that we can still drive in and enjoy the non-horsey side of life. Neither of us drink, so driving isn't a pain for us.

Our work/home/horsey life is well balanced with very little stress and everyone feels like their needs are being met. DH is the main bread winner and feels a load is off his shoulders, and while he is not horsey, he does enjoy living here. One daughter moved just down the road so I still have plenty of help with them and we are not tied to the place.

NONE of that corresponds with your situation. And I guarantee if your wife underestimated the cost of keeping a horse, she has underestimated the costs of a house with land and the maintenance! Houses with land are as rare as rocking horse shit and the cost per acre of land shoots through the roof when it tied to a property so forget about 20 grand an acre, think more 90. They are hard enough to find and command a huge premium in the backwater where I live, I shudder to think what your budget would need to be for a house with six acres in SE, IF you can find it.

If you do this, I wouldn't give your marriage long. 'Horse fever' is real and I have seen horse obsessives destroy relationships with partners and children as they demand their animal take over more and more of family life and finances. Say no and stick to your guns. She already has a horsey life, she is luckier than most.

You need to speak to your wife and say you aren’t willing to go this and you aren’t happy. She shouldn’t be stream rolling you regarding horses. You already spend a ridiculous out of money on a hobby you get no joy from.

I would recommend moving to DIY. If the horses were kept at home, your wife and daughters need to be able to get the horse work done around work and school hours, so this would be a good introduction for them.
Maintaining land is also expensive and time consuming. You probably want to add on at least an extra hour each day for maintenance jobs.

I can totally see the appeal (for the girls/women in your life) but the practicalities are unlikely to fit with the dream, so initially, why don't you suggest they go full-time DIY at the livery, to see what that feels like as it'll give them more of an idea of the reality of having horses at home. It'll also save you some money that can be re-distributed to all the other costs of horse ownership.

After a couple of years, your daughters will be old enough, and experienced enough, to understand more about what they'd be taking on. And by then one or both of them might have found other things in life to spend time on (like lots of horse-mad youngsters do).

If at that point all three of them are still as obsessed then a further discussion would be needed...especially as none of the associated costs are going to go anywhere but up.

All of that said, I still think that where you are now is enough (time and money).

You are 25% of your family, your needs and wants matter too!

If you’re spending £15k a year on horse maintenance might you actually save money if you bought the house with land and did it yourself?

I have two horses (and have had three in the past) and even I think this is madness.

It never ends up cheaper having your own land and it's very difficult to get good reliable help and so you end up never being able to go away. I wouldn't have mine at home for those reasons.

Financially, I do try to keep the costs within my share of leisure money, as I wouldn't want DH to miss out on things he wants to do because of the horses, even though he is a very keen supporter of the madness.

If she wants it this much, she can pay for larger grounds and a house equal or better to what you have now. £25000 /year depending on what you earn will hugely set back your retirement/ability to fund children through university/provide house deposit etc

For example £25000 per year until your youngest turns 30 could give around £500000 towards a housing deposit (in today's money).

Presuming the 4x4 costs £20000 and you would have to borrow £300000 extra to buy a house with grounds, that's £457000 of money when interest considered that is no longer liquid and available for your children's futures. You would also have increased house and grounds maintenance costs to consider.

If you choose to think about it this way:
£25000 per year now plus changes to your housing/car situation = around £500000 in today's money lost towards housing deposit for EACH of your children assuming you keep the horses until your youngest is 30. It's a massive waste of family wealth in my opinion. If she wants it so much, let her find the money herself. You should be able to live a good life without ridiculous financial pressure +/- retire early if that's what you choose.

Lol, WHAT? The daughters don’t get an equal vote on their parents taking out a massive mortgage and completely changing the family’s lifestyle. It’s one adult against one adult, not “3 against 1, suck it up.” The 12- and 15-year-olds are obviously going to vote for more horses. They’re not the ones signing the mortgage, paying £25k a year, maintaining acres of land, or restructuring their entire life around it. By that logic, every family financial decision should just be settled by whichever parent can recruit the children to their side first. 😭

Very late to the party but sheath cleaning costs about £35 per horse. A lady comes to our yard in the south west and does all the geldings (sensitive ones as well) for £35 each. Someone is pulling your leg here I think

I think you were mad to agree to one horse in the beginning to be honest OP. If your wife wants these things then she should fund them. I would not be paying thousands for a hobby I don't even participate in.

Something isn't right here. I can't see anywhere where you mention the cost of livery for the 5 days, but I imagine it would be about £550 per horse per month in the south of England. I am not sure whether it includes bedding, hay and basic food (without any supplements). That comes to £13.5k per year. I cannot imagine what the other £12k goes on.

I have just worked out my annual spends. My DIY livery yard costs me £350 a month (I have an extra paddock and I store my lorry there for a fee). On top of that I have to buy bedding, food and hay. I have added in shoes every 5 weeks, my insurance, my lorry insurance and tax, supplements, chiro and physio and it only comes to £8.5k per annum. I can't understand how two horses (or are they ponies) can cost that much even if they are in full livery for the 5 days.

So anyone who is married to an addict should simply accept that and do whatever is necessary to fund the addiction?

Horses are a lifestyle, both me and my husband have had horses and now have a pony (for child) and a donkey at home, we will probably get another horse to share in the future. I can imagine it’s very difficult if you aren’t interested, your feelings are valid and it’s not fair if this isn’t what you signed up for. We bought a house with land many years ago, selling two properties to afford a dilapidated cottage with land that we have done up but is as big of a money pit as the horses. My husband and I are equally as committed to this lifestyle and have been very happy here. It doesn’t sound like you would be happy with a similar situation. I’ve known couples who live completely separate lives as one is dedicated to horses, to the point where I’m not sure why they are married. You have already been very accommodating, can you talk to your wife and figure out a compromise? I would argue that if you kept the horses at home your children will miss out on the social side of being on a livery yard, there won’t be anyone to ride out with or look after your horses when you go on holiday (another expense and stress as finding reliable horse sitters can be hard). Good luck, I hope it doesn’t fall on deaf ears.

I've got two at home and baulk at spending £1500 each year for both of them 😂

YANBU

I grew up in a horsey family, got my first pony when I was 4yrs old. I don't have any horses now as an adult but did loan a pony for a while for my children.

Anyway, what bothers me most about this post is that they are paying for 5 days full livery. This woman has the audacity to want them to move to a smallholding when she's not even caring for their horses full time herself (+daughters). No wonder this man is finding it so expensive with 5 days livery for 2 horses, one in poor health & in the SE.

Do they really NEED a trailer? Is hiring one when required not better?

You need to put your foot down. It's not fair that you've had to go back to full time work to fund this hobby, and you sure as hell shouldn't buy a smallholding on their demands when they're not even looking after their own bloody horses full time as it is.

Say no, become a broken record "we cannot afford it", and while you're at it, add in "we cannot afford it, and cannot afford the 5 day full livery, so the 3 of you will need to start going daily to bring the extortionate costs down".

Honestly, if they are only really spending weekends with them, it would be much more affordable to look into loaning rather than owning horses.

Omg you may as well feed them fivers that just made lol 😂

And the worst part is the amount of shit you have to clear up everyday.

I'm a horse person, as are my children. DH absolutely isn't. We have a pony and a part loan horse. I'd love more horses and one of my own. Financially it's doable for us but DH would prefer that money to be spent on other things.

Similarly, I'd love to move to the countryside and have our own land. It's financially within our grasp but DH doesn't want to for a miriad of perfectly legitimate reasons. I think all the reasons are easily overcome/ lived with, because for me the benefits out way the challenges, but DH disagreed. So we are staying put. Yes it makes me sad.

But we are a team and we need to work together for the good of the team. We've got a reasonable compromise that works for us - DH has bent a bit (he didn't want any houses at all) and so have I.

I've got three at home, at a rough guesstimate they cost less than €2500 in the last 12 months and they want for nothing.

In our household, the estimate would lead to a set budget, on unanimous approval (of course) as if it were a business: budget = estimate + 20% contingency. Then we'd assess on an ongoing basis, for us monthly, versus actual. This is how it has to work across hobbies. Or else costs can run away quite quickly.

Budgeting, and working to manage and mitigate increase in costs is something you need to do as a family. Our DC learned to be part of the decision making and solution focused responsible family members managing this and it's led to them taking lessons forward.

Thinking about it

The inflation situation isnt looking very pretty with both oil & nitrogen fertilizer that use to come through the Strait of Hormuz being cut off plus the impact of this years heatwave and the forecast El Nino event.

I suggest that the cost of keeping a horse is likley to go up significantly over the next year or so.

Take up golf - that’s expensive too but you might enjoy it! At the moment you are paying for a hobby with no benefit to you and your hard earned salary.