to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

[Pinkshocks]

If he is already getting everything on a plate, a committed partner, a sexual relationship, children, someone to split the bills with, emotional support and a family life, all without making any legal or lifelong commitment, why would he change anything?

I know this does NOT apply to every couple or to ALL men. Some people genuinely do not want to marry and both are happy with that. But if one person wants marriage and the other keeps putting it off year after year, are they really going to change when they are already getting everything they want?

Why would someone buy the ticket when they are already getting the whole show for free?

Perhaps try using your brain capacity to work this one out.

You said it, you specify what you meant.

Men all think the same way?

I wonder what makes men propose after such a long time together. In the instance of my friend it was her preparing to leave him that prompted him to propose. Or, at least, the timing was such that I can’t reasonably think that it wasn’t a factor. His business had collapsed with significant personal debt liable by him, her business was going from strength to strength.

Cynically I wonder if men in their 40s who marry partners they’ve strung along for a long time have something else going on in their lives that makes marriage suddenly seem like a good idea, given they’ve happily lived without it for so long.

This thread makes it sound like marriage is only possible if the man decides it's going to happen! I thought most couples decided together these days? Why would you want to hang around waiting to be chosen like a delicate Victorian flower? Marry me before I pass away with consumption sir!

Male nature. Most do.

Typically, such individuals enter marriage under external compulsion, often when they perceive themselves as no longer objects of romantic interest to other women or, as in your friend’s case, in response to an ultimatum.

Wow, what an easy get out for bad behaviour. Can't help it, I'm a man, is that what it is?

Must be incredible to have such a simplistic worldview.

It is quite something for a man to watch a woman give life, keep a home, cook, work full-time, and still expect intimacy on demand — as though his mere existence were contribution enough.

Many men enjoy seeing their women 'endure'.

Well, men make this easy.

Simple creatures.

This thread makes it sound like marriage is only possible if the man decides it's going to happen! I thought most couples decided together these days?

But both partners need to be willing! If one doesn’t fancy it, it’s not going to happen (and it seems that men are more likely to drag their feet)

The majority of men contemplate losing their freedom, which apparently means the terrible burden of being expected to behave decently.

They will happily impregnate you, cheat, and then discard you, all while presenting themselves as the injured party.

Quite the Mumsnet classic, really.

@BlueFahrenheit I actually think it was the financial issues that prompted it. Unmarried my friend could walk away and leave him to it, married not only would she stay to keep him company, there was also more chance of persuading her to help with the repayments.

@ClarkeandNewman This thread makes it sound like marriage is only possible if the man decides it's going to happen!

Well, yes, if the man doesn’t want to marry then the couple never will. And the same is true if the man wishes to marry but the woman doesn’t. It’s still more likely for the man to make the proposal than for the woman to though.

There’s a current post on the relationships board when the OP wants advice on buying a house with dp: However, one thing that bothers me is that he just won’t marry me. For not good reason other than he just doesn’t see the point. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5560094-buying-a-house-together-when-he-does-not-want-to-marry

Maybe you ought to pop across and offer the OP the benefit of your wisdom - Why would you want to hang around waiting to be chosen like a delicate Victorian flower? Marry me before I pass away with consumption sir!

Which begs the question of why you'd want to marry one, then, and why you're even wasting your time thinking about the issue.

I am fortunate enough to have a great husband.

Who said I was thinking about the issue? I am merely responding to a thread.

Yep. But that's not what this thread is about. It's about women pining through the best years of their lives longing to be proposed to.

My hill to die on was no DC without marriage
DH was of same mind - still ended in divorce

No. It’s about men lying to women about the status of their relationship.

If a man doesn’t like the idea of marriage in general or to that particular woman he should be honest enough to say so. And give an honest answer as to why.

But all to often he’ll lie and say ‘Of course babe, we’ll get married! But let’s wait a bit first.’ Or ‘I’ve bought a ring, let’s get engaged. We can fix a date later, maybe next year we’ll look at when.’ Sometimes he’ll gaslight her with ‘Marriage isn’t important, it’s just a piece of paper. You don’t need me to sign anything to prove how much I love you!’

And he has no intention of marrying her.

Maybe it isn’t important to you, but most women don’t appreciate being lied to.

Is there any need to be personal?

You're entitled to your interpretation of the thread of course.

Honesty. An area the majority of men fail in.

Men will often feed women morsels and breadcrumbs formed of her emotional hope of marriage.

I cannot stress enough the importance of women adhering to their timelines and setting boundaries.

I have known couples marry after 30 or 40 years together. Inevitably it is for legal and tax and inheritance and medical reasons by that stage.

For us, it was about being each other's next of kin (and a few other legal bits and bobs). No one strung anyone along and there was no proposal, there was an adult conversation in which we both talked about the reasons for changing our minds. The anti-marriage one was mostly me - I saw it as a tool of patriarchal convention and I wanted no part of it. DH wasn't bothered either way. I still don't see it as a significant reflection of love or commitment.

I changed my mind because in one's 40s one tends to be confronted by mortality rather more than in one's 30s. And we both have difficult families who could well make any sudden death even harder for the survivor. I was aware that there are legal routes to protecting each other without marriage but ultimately I decided I preferred a party to legal admin and appointments.

I misunderstood you, apologies.
If you want a man to marry you and he won't, then I agree nothing you can do will change that. Better to find another man who does want to marry.

As for why any man would want to marry, when he could probably find a woman willing to live with him and have his babies without marriage, I can only assume men get some kind of status out of marriage that they don't otherwise find in a non-married partnership (as well as being in love with her, etc.)
Perhaps it is a biological drive in some men to be monogamous (at least for a while), to protect the mother of his babies. Other men have a different biological drive, to sow lots of 'seed' and move on to the next woman.

We are far more driven by biology than we care to admit.

Of course cultural norms are not set in stone.
But they do take many, many generations to change.
Meanwhile, we make the best of the situation we find ourselves in.