to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

[Pinkshocks]

If he is already getting everything on a plate, a committed partner, a sexual relationship, children, someone to split the bills with, emotional support and a family life, all without making any legal or lifelong commitment, why would he change anything?

I know this does NOT apply to every couple or to ALL men. Some people genuinely do not want to marry and both are happy with that. But if one person wants marriage and the other keeps putting it off year after year, are they really going to change when they are already getting everything they want?

Why would someone buy the ticket when they are already getting the whole show for free?

💯 this

marriage can makes sense from a tax perspective

Men will fuck a mcchicken. A man being willing to have sex doesn't mean they love you.

But obviously I'm talking generically here. I'm sure many unmarried couples are in love. But I'd imagine they are both happy to be legally single in those cases rather than one pining.

You're absolutely correct OP and this has been proven time after time after time on Mumsnet.

So many threads over the years where women in that position have been 'waiting for a proposal' for years, and the bloke's just making constant excuses.

Even worse when the woman claims 'marriage is important to me'.

Errrr well if that's the case, you should've done it before giving him everything you have.

I voted YABU because I find your assumption frankly annoying.

And the assumption is that women still want to get married.
In my experience, That’s less and less the case. Women are independent financially. They can have sex when they want to outside of marriage. Why shackling themselves with a man they’ll have to look after?
(thats from those young women, not me!)

As fur being together, having children agd not being married?
Yep many cases like this on MN. From 30~35yo (or older)
Again my experience is that younger women have wised up a lot. They often earn more than their partners too. (You seem to have that trend on MN too btw) so marriage isn’t as much of a protection fur them than it once was.

There are more women who earn less than men. They have to sacrifice wages and pensions on maternity leave, etc. Isn’t blindingly obvious why more women want to get married?

There are numerous posts on here where the women out earns the man, own their own house etc., and the overwhelming response is telling them not to get married.

I don’t think it’s a man/women thing, it’s more of a ‘who is the most vulnerable and wants the protection of marriage if things go tits up’.

Yes. I work with a couple of guys who have happily had children with women who, if you ask them if they plan to marry her, they will admit they still arent sure shes 'the one'. A lot of men view marriage, and the subsequent sharing of finances, as more of a commitment than having a child with someone, though most probably wont admit it. Its why many women will advise other women NOT to have children before marriage!

My own experience and that if feiends and relations has been, men who truly love a woman are not loathe at all to pop the question, in fact can often be quite quick off the mark to do so once in a secure financial position.

Fine that you find it annoying. The poll show that the majority of people are in agreement though.

it is not an assumption - many women have been posting as long as I have been on mumsnet that they want to marry but their partner refuses. I know women myself in this position too.

Even if women earn really well the stats show their earnings go down after children.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandwellbeing/bulletins/theimpactofmotherhoodonmonthlyemployeeearningsandemploymentstatusengland/april2014todecember2022

• Having children leads to a substantial and long-lasting reduction in mothers’ earnings; five years after the birth of a first child (Quarter 20), monthly earnings were reduced on average by 42%, or £1,051 per month, compared with earnings one year before the birth.

But some posters are saying a man will marry you only if they love you.

Not according to @SummerDive

Of course! It happens all the time!

Is that you mum???

It also makes the divorce easier. I have recently been horrified to learn that friends who I thought were married are not. The man is … difficult and verging on abusive. They have 3 children at university and the woman is miserable. They are stuck in mutual loathing. She gave up her career 25 years ago and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

This

So marriage proves love?

Men will only propose to women they think are worth marrying.

If the man refuses to marry a woman who wants to marry him and with whom he has children, then he probably thinks she isn’t good enough to be his spouse.

Harsh, yes.

But true.

Same here. I dont want to be someones wife in any case

And I would be disadvantaged financially if I was. No thank you.

She’s not good enough to marry but enough to have kids and share a life with?

Men have generally not been conditioned since childhood to believe that their worth is defined by whether someone is willing to marry them.

I think it depends. In your 20s and 30s couples marry to commit on the basis of a shared life and sharing of workload. This is logical and both bring something to the relationship.

For second and and third relationships where there is inequality in assets, why would you marry?

I would not remarry so a new DH ould walk off with half my cash.

I would not have children with a man who couldn’t commit to marriage. In my opinion - having children is the biggest commitment of all - I would not agree to kids before the wedding.

Yes and more so if she already has DC and her own home.

Having a child with her is the best way to cement his feet to her floor.

I agree with you to a point. I think a lot of men become comfortable, and if getting married wouldn't really change their lives, they often don't feel any urgency to make it happen.

That said, if they know their partner wants marriage and they keep putting it off while stringing her along, I'd question how committed they really are. To me, that suggests they're either unsure or keeping their options open.

If a man genuinely loves his partner and is fully committed to building a future with her, it's hard to see a good reason to avoid marriage indefinitely.

Yes.

She’s carried the children he may (or may not) have set out to have. Maybe he sees her as a good mother and feels that’s important, hence why he has kids with her. But that doesn’t mean he sees the woman as potential wife material.

I wonder what message this sends to the kids - Mummy wants to marry Daddy, but Daddy doesn’t want to get tied down and stuck with Mummy.

Women come off worse in most marriages - poorer and with less savings, worse mental and physical health and live shorter lives. Single women are happiest of all. Why would she buy the pig when she can get the sausage free?