to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

[Pinkshocks]

If he is already getting everything on a plate, a committed partner, a sexual relationship, children, someone to split the bills with, emotional support and a family life, all without making any legal or lifelong commitment, why would he change anything?

I know this does NOT apply to every couple or to ALL men. Some people genuinely do not want to marry and both are happy with that. But if one person wants marriage and the other keeps putting it off year after year, are they really going to change when they are already getting everything they want?

Why would someone buy the ticket when they are already getting the whole show for free?

Imo they will marry you if they actually love you. If not, they don't.

Yes, you're right. Marriage makes no sense for the person with the upper hand financially, unless you're gaining something else e.g. all the things you mention.

Myself and dh married a couple of years ago after many ( many ! ) years together .
So I don't think I agree with you .

Like I said NOT ALL MEN in my op.

I sort of agree with you, as amongst my friends that have been together for years yet aren’t married, it’s always the woman that would love to be married and the man that’s not bothered.

In my relationship, being married was equally important to both of us. And, it might be old-fashioned, but we did things in the right order and had kids after we were married.

So these men don’t love the women they are with even if they have DC with them?

I agree with a previous poster that if the man loves the woman enough, he will marry her. However, I subscribe to doing things the conventional way, such as kids after marriage. That's what I did and that's what I will advise my daughters to do. There are too many risk factors doing it the other way and people leave themselves very vulnerable.

I think that some men want to keep their options open even after they have kids.

Options open and finances closed!

So he will have sometimes several kids with a woman he doesn’t love?

If they are together 50 years and he didn’t marry her it was because he didn’t love her? Even though they have kids and grandkids together?

I don’t think I know any men like this. All sounds very old fashioned honestly.

I think that’s sometimes the case, yes.

I wouldn’t have settled for someone that wasn’t completely and utterly devoted enough to want to marry me.

what if the woman doesn’t want to get married?

Definitely not all men, my dh really wanted to marry, and wanted a proper wedding too, i would have been happy with a trip up to Gretna

Some people, women included, aren't really that bothered about marriage and see it as an unnecessary formality. So it's not that they are dead against marriage, it's just that it's not on their agenda. If a woman wants to be married and the man is positively against it, then it depends on the reason why. I think most men who didn't previously see marriage on their agenda, would marry a woman they loved who wanted to get married.

So the proof of love is marriage?

The person who wants to get married here has agency too. I can't count how many threads I've read where women miserably talk about having passively waited around for years for a ring as though they've got absolutely no say in the matter, bemoaning that they've given up 'the whole show' as though a mortgage or kids or an entire life together is just a bargaining chip they forgot to cash in.

If you're with someone and marriage is important to you, stand the fuck up and have some agency. Refuse to have children or whatever else it is you think they want instead of marriage until they make it official. If they won't or they put you off, instead of dithering about it, assume he's a liar and make your choice accordingly. A man who actually wants to be married to you will be married to you but you are allowed to make decisions about who you're with, too.

It's generally the person who's better off financially who is less inclined to marry, whether that's a man or a woman. Why would a woman want to marry if she's already getting everything you say marriage offers, yet only stands to lose financially in the event of a divorce? Why is this always framed as something that only applies to men?

Times have changed. Most people work, both parents are expected to contribute to childcare, and child maintenance applies whether you're married or not. Men aren't some rare prize women need to catch anymore.

It’s pretty common. Lots of colleagues at work where couples are buying houses together, having children and no marriage. The men aren’t not bothered. The women usually do want to be married but they are waiting for him to change his mind.

Agree with this. I know many committed couples that aren’t married and largely it’s because they can’t be bothered and don’t see it as very important in this day and age.

On the whole it is women who usually want marriage more than men.

I read all the time on here about women who have been with men for years, had children and their partners refuse to marry them.

That is why I said

I know this does NOT apply to every couple or to ALL men.

You see these women on here all the time. They’ve got kids and a house but no marriage. They post that they’re longing for the romantic proposal that’s highly unlikely to materialise.

Get married or don’t - it only matters if it matters. But I think people should make a life with someone with the same values. But if one person wants to be married and the other doesn’t, that’s a fundamental difference in what they want their future to look like. Love may still be there, but one of them is always going to feel disappointed or second rate. I see this in a couple of my female friends who feel they were never quite good enough.

I see it too. Marriage is important to these women but they still went ahead and had kids without it. Some have been waiting decades.