AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

[MyCyanAnt]

I can’t be the only one who has noticed this. I went to genuinely average comprehensive schools and had parents who just dgaf like most in UK. I went to medical school where it seemed like this upbringing put you in a small minority, now an ultra high earner from own business but still do part time work as a GP. DC are 12 and 14.

Whenever the topic of education comes up with other doctors/professionals they will say stuff like it’s the child not the school who determines the outcome, we’re not pushing DC, we’re letting DC pick their school etc

However when it comes down to it none of them ever put their money where their mouth is. It won’t always be Eton but it will almost always be either a private, grammar or high performing comp in expensive catchment area instead of a genuinely average comp.

It’s a similar story with paying for tutors and other parents DC being interested in prestigious but completely unrelated careers e.g. Doctor or investment banking who have obviously been guided by parents.

I do the same but I feel like I’m an outlier in that I don’t lie about it, I’m obviously paying/gaming things so DC are much more likely to get a top job. I don’t see what’s wrong with admitting it yet it’s such a sensitive subject with some.

I’d guess the average parent will tell kids to do homework but not do much to help them with it

really?

Maybe ask private tutors and tutoring school how they can't keep up with the demand. Seems that a few families at least are more involved than you think?

55% of children don’t get a 5 in English and maths (extremely low bar to meet and achievable by anyone without a clear learning disability) and the performance of low income immigrants children.

I suppose the difference in attitude from immigrant parents may be down to different ideas of what to be proud of.
For the parents who are open, their source of pride is how hard they work on their DCs behalf, their tenacity and drive to give their DC the best opportunity.
For those who hide it, their source of pride is the inate exceptionalism of their DC, who they want to portray as achieving highly through no effort on their part.

@MyCyanAntI would say that moving for catchments, tutoring exist outside of the umc though.

@5128gapthat makes sense

not really

Surely it's natural for a parent to try to give the best circumstance for your children, not because they have no "higher natural ability",but because.. why wouldn't you?

It's not a social experiment, who cares if they could or could achieve in or out optimum circumstances, you do give them optimum circumstances because.. it's your job?

I know exactly what you mean OP but “gaming” possibly wasn't the right word. I think some people don’t realise the contrast between what they think is “normal” - understanding what makes a nurturing educational environment, having the confidence that they and their children will fit in a thrive at the “better” schools and go on to have professional careers etc - and what is normal for families who don’t come from the same circumstances or circles. People who study medicine, where one is taught to understand the relationship between poverty, life chances and health/ mortality, are aware that their children are already at an advantage and maybe feel they want to hide their privilege in some way, possibly out of guilt because they understand that their children are not likely to experience many of the mental and physical health challenges brought about by poverty they see in their patients The people I know who are barristers and stock brokers are a lot more up front about their motivation and steer on “their children’s” choices. Eg my friend’s ex who is a barrister was very firm that their children would only be educated privately as he wanted him to be mixing with “the right type of families” ie he wanted the right social networks. At 11 years old, the dc had no idea of who the “right types” might be.
Some of the very touchy responses to your reasonable post kind of prove the point you are making.

But did you have a lot of input with your kids? Did they have lots of books? Did you take them to museums? Did you help them with their homework etc.? That might have redressed the balance. Or maybe their sixth form education was very good, like my elder son’s which made up for the poor earlier years?

You may be unusual in that your children are naturally highly intelligent but I don’t think that if you took 100 children of the same abilities and put half of them in private/grammar school and half in the local comp the results would be the same.

One of my work colleagues said she wanted to send her kids to private school so her child didn’t have to mix with anyone rough. The most honest conversation I’ve ever had with anyone about why they chose private school for their child.

Having sent my kids to private and state, some of the conversations would be very ugly if parents were 100% truthful.

I will never understand parents who hand important life decisions over to their children. There is nothing wrong with involving them in family decisions but to burden them with choices which could affect them throughout the rest of their lives is a bad idea. Parents should be there to nurture & guide children on a path which will prepare them for the responsibilities of adulthood. Allowing a free for all to make their own choices & decisions imo is simply lazy parenting which ultimately results in a lack of respect for rules & boundaries.

I sent my kids to a private school. Yes I am trying to give them the best start in life like we were given. It’s not “gaming the system” more that state education is parlous.

We can afford it and I really don’t care what others think.

In this country we seem to sometimes have a thing against striving (hangover from historic class system, know your place etc), so this is maybe why people downplay how much tutoring they do to get into grammar school etc.

People might also be fed up of little digs that imply you’re somehow hothousing them by taking an interest and that’s why they keep quiet about it

It's not gaming. It's giving your kids the best chance. We've done it with both our kids, just straight forward encouragement, applying for good schools, tutoring. It's not unusual.

Class in the UK is absolutely not bullshit. We are riddled with it. I'm no fan of the US but at least they don't deny everything they do is about money.

Not really

I just don't think it's accurate to pretend it has to do with *upper middle class professionals *

Yeah this is the norm, downplay.

Which is the best school though? My DC are/were in comprehensive education. Eldest DD has dyslexia so we didn't want to push the grammar school route for her. It turns out, in any case, that the kids taking the most antidepressants are the ones at our local grammar school due to the undue pressure placed on them. Would you really want that for your child? As it turns out, DD was in all the top sets at her comprehensive and got all 8s and 9s in her GCSEs and is now in a prestigious 6th form....so I think we made the right decision.
Also, my DB is a Dr and went to our local Catholic comprehensive. If a child is going to succeed they will succeed. I don't agree with elitism.

I think I see what you're saying OP, and I think I agree.

My situation was similar to yours - I went to a top university and have had a pretty respectable career. But my parents didn't care and it was sad and very hard having to organise all my achievements totally alone.

I think you have a small point that some parents are disengenuous, but if I may, I think what might be driving your frustration is personal sadness that your own parents weren't supportive.

It's ok to look critically at what our parents did. You don't need to tell them and hurt their feelings. But if their behaviour made your life harder compared with your peers, it's healthy to work though the resulting sadness and anger. It's justifiable and anyone would feel the same in your shoes.

Considering your example, by the age of 10/11 parents and schools can make a huge difference so a previously academically more average child outperforms their naturally brighter but disadvantaged peer. That is why high quality graduate led early education and continued nurturing during the primary years is so important.

It’s not a Game we’re in a middle class area with a top comp it’s regular conversation here… Grammar School catchments, scores, 11+ tutors.. then entrance exams for private schools etc.

To be honest you can ask most parents round here and everyone talks about it.

I've reflected about this post and actually I think everyone I know who sent their children from age 4, did because they could and/or it was how they were educated or to consciously ensure their DC mixed with people like them. Also, having done state to 8, the indy gates were much easier and far less chippy - everyone was on the same page.

If the great grandad owned the land, the grandad was a stockbroker and the dad is a barrister, the child is destined for a similar journey. It extrapolates to blue collar or vocational jobs. For a little while, the grammar schools provided a route out of the mines, docks and factories. When they went, so did a little honesty.

"Everybody lies."

You’re right OP. And it’s not going to get better whilst private education exists, as even those who choose a comp will try to give their kids advantages if they can to bridge that gap.

My kids go to comprehensive schools but I will
admit it’s not the full story.

First of all, by virtue of having an Italian grandfather I am nominally Catholic, so they got to very good Catholic schools. Then if there’s a subject where they struggle we can get a tutor.

My DS has ADHD and is dyslexic. We could go for a private assessment which meant we got in before yr 5 with the assessment and could therefore pick a school- he likely wouldn’t have had the assessment early enough otherwise.

That also means I’ve had loads of time with SENCOs discussing him and have learnt the phrase cultural capital- all the things he does outside school that contribute hugely to his education.

Its not a level playing field by any means!

I think most people want their child to have the best education possible, its just many cant afford private or good catchment. I don't think this is an exclusive umc thing

They just don't want to brag too much, essentially they don't want to say "I didn't want to send my child to your childs crappy comprehensive" when realistically I think most parents would want to do what they've done if they could afford it

Who are they who are doing this, @MyCyanAnt?

I bet you know zero such people. Hang on, I've read your responses. You're just making shit up.

A thread based on supposition. i.e. fuck all.