AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

[MyCyanAnt]

I can’t be the only one who has noticed this. I went to genuinely average comprehensive schools and had parents who just dgaf like most in UK. I went to medical school where it seemed like this upbringing put you in a small minority, now an ultra high earner from own business but still do part time work as a GP. DC are 12 and 14.

Whenever the topic of education comes up with other doctors/professionals they will say stuff like it’s the child not the school who determines the outcome, we’re not pushing DC, we’re letting DC pick their school etc

However when it comes down to it none of them ever put their money where their mouth is. It won’t always be Eton but it will almost always be either a private, grammar or high performing comp in expensive catchment area instead of a genuinely average comp.

It’s a similar story with paying for tutors and other parents DC being interested in prestigious but completely unrelated careers e.g. Doctor or investment banking who have obviously been guided by parents.

I do the same but I feel like I’m an outlier in that I don’t lie about it, I’m obviously paying/gaming things so DC are much more likely to get a top job. I don’t see what’s wrong with admitting it yet it’s such a sensitive subject with some.

How is sending your child to the best school you can manage "gaming the system"?

That IS the system!

In what way are they 'gaming' education? Aren't they doing the best for their DC and giving them the best education they can?

I think mainly what you're saying is that people often don't recognise their own privilege, which I agree with. I live in this type of world too, and I'd say people are just doing what's considered normal in their social and familial circles so they don't view it out of the ordinary.

But on the flip side, I think most people who have the means and opportunities would do the same. Nobody deliberately chooses an interior school or witholds additional support if they have the option not to.

My kids are at private school and have been since they were 4. I’m not “gaming” it in the slightest; it’s just our preference. Dd1 is about to start at the school’s sixth form. We went with her to look at and apply to other state options for alevels but was happiest at idea of staying with where she knows. Why does it have to be a game? Why can’t it be parent choice? It’s not like we hide where she goes!

Yes, but it is very contradictory to what they claim. We’re letting DC make their own choices, DC will succeed anywhere, we’re letting DC find their own way etc.

Agree with pp. it’s not gaming. Getting your DC a tutor if they need help is hardly a bad thing and you’re talking about parents ‘obviously guiding their children’ like it’s some nefarious plot. The system is navigated by parents. Do you really think it should be played like pin the tail on the donkey with zero thought about where DC go or where they might do okay?

Just wait till you get to HE stage and wind up paying thousands/getting into £££ debt for a degree that may or may well not be worth it, and then tell me if you think it was wise to not give any thought or support to their earlier education. We all have to fill in the primary / secondary / 6th form preference lists. Are you suggesting we just pull names out of a hat?? Course not. Parental involvement in kids’s education is a big factor and the problem is when it doesn’t happen, not when it does.

Its how they grew up, so its totally normal to them. Music lessons, a tutor, private school arent seen as gaming the system.
I bet none of them have a hairdresser or car repairer sibling, but maybe have a pilot or civil engineer. And thats what they mean about "finding their own way".

I don’t hear people saying these sanctimonious things, but then I tend to hang with people I like. If you want the debate, call them on it. Don’t turn it into some widespread phenomenon so you can be gleefully superior. Most parents are doing their best don’t you think?

I think sometimes they don’t recognise it but more often it’s pure denial. As if it reflects badly on them or DC.

I think most UK parents will just send their DC to the closest school or let their kids truly decide which will normally be the one their friends go to. They might encourage them to do well at school with no real expectations or guidance. It’s just not a priority for most Brits, even those who are loving/good parents overall.

Dh is a Dr and so are most of our friends. None of them (and certainly not us) would say our DC “will succeed anywhere”. We know full well that the environment a child is learning in can impact their academic performance. So yes we all try and get our kids into the best school for them to learn in, now that doesn’t necessarily mean private (in fact a lot of Drs are getting priced out of private education for their kids). But it might mean grammar school or buying a house in the catchment of the best Comp. Wouldn’t all parents try and get their kids into the best school for that child?

it will almost always be either a private, grammar or high performing comp on expensive catchment area instead of a genuinely average comp

You seem to be saying…nothing in particular here?

Given all options are available the child or adult involved is unlikely to pick the “genuinely average comp” nor as high earners is the catchment comp likely to be “genuinely average”. So not pushing the children / letting them pick is the truth.

Also quite usual for kids to pick professions their parents or others in their family / circle do.

This feels like a non-observation and that you have a chip on your shoulder.

Gaming (as I understand it) means to manipulate, and that’s not the behaviour you’re describing. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say these people are downplaying their involvement, or at a push being hypocrites?

I dont agree in 'gaming' but I do agree that some parents aren't outwardly honest about why they send their kids to private schools. They do often build a narrative around shopping around including state schools but the 'fit' was much better at the fee paying option/s or the kid preferred it. When really it'd be more honest to say we want to pay for our kids to have what we think is an advantage, through private education and tutoring (normally its both).

I am from a similar background and agree with your analysis. They are doing their best for their offspring but they don’t recognise their privilege.

i disagree with your statement that most parents don’t give a f. I think k a minority don’t but I think most parents do their best for their kids.

I agree OP. The rhetoric is very “oh this old thing, it just sort of happened like that…” but somehow they have just moved to Buckinghamshire (for grammar schools) or just happened to start going to church every Sunday (to get into the CoE “outstanding” primary).

It’s all pretty calculated but many don’t / won’t really admit their motivation. Own your pushy middle class behaviour (I try to, no point in being all shy about it).

This is always relative to something.
Maybe people in hereditarily wealthy families feel they are giving their children more choices than they had themselves.

You are not wrong in your observations - it is like a free choice from the pre-approved choices. Or, one might say, "just bringing the children up to make the right choices themselves".

Is it gaming the system, or playing the best with the hand you've got - within the system?

It's a game of appearing laid back and not appearing to be a helicopter to a degree.

I used insouicantly to say, oh we just bunged them into the closest local schools - which we did. However those local schools were amongst the best in the land. We just had clever children and didn't tutor.

We let DC find their own way and make their own choices: all the way to Oxford and Cambridge .

They aren't gaming education @MyCyanAnt They might be gaming you a bit but their educational routes are the routes they know and expect.

I actually don’t agree that this is the case. Our local FB page is full of parents who are obviously not UMC but who are deeply invested in which state schools in the town are better and how to get their kids into them. I think the % of parents who really DGAF is actually low, but if you don’t have the money for private then obviously your options might be limited and someone will end up with the worst school.

other parents DC being interested in prestigious but completely unrelated careers e.g. Doctor or investment banking who have obviously been guided by parents.

i think this comes down to “what is your normal”. If your parents have a lot of friends who work in the city/ in finance then it’s reasonable to expect that you might see it as a good career even if your parents aren’t doing that themselves or have guided you to it. It’s kind of a good job that dc whose parents aren’t doctors want to do it because no one who is a doctor is encouraging their dc down that path, that’s for sure 😂

What on earth are you talking about, it’s not gaming the system, take your tin foil hat off, all children will perform based on their ability, personality type and drive,

yes if capable and they wish to it gives them a better chance, of course if does, but that’s not gaming the system. It’s simply giving them a better chance, ultimately the child will still decide. You can’t force your child to do something as an adult they either don’t wish or are not capable of.

I sold a one bed flat in a good school catchment area a few years ago. The estate agent mentioned the school catchment in the property details. I questioned this as nobody would be able to fit children in the flat! He said they still had people buying properties they had no intention of living in so they could use the address to get children into a good school.

If you’ve been paying for private since 4 it absolutely is to increase the chance your DC go to a top uni, get a top job etc.

I don’t have any problem with this but what grates me is when people deny it and act like they send DC so they can play the flute or some other BS. I’m not saying you do this.

When I asked my DCs, oddly enough they wanted to go to the better secondary schools, too ...

Not really sure what you're complaining about tbh

I think they just mean they’re not strictly dictating the decisions or heavily pressuring their DC to follow a certain life path like some parents do. I don’t think they’re trying to claim that their DC’s choices aren’t influenced by their privileges at all.

They just mean aren’t telling their DC “you will go to (school parents chose), a tutor and specific hobbies are non-negotiable and you will study (specific subject at specific university) to become a (job)”

It's not contradictory to change your mind when new information or situations surface and it's possible that this is what happened with some of your acquaintances. More importantly, why does that matter to you?

The DC of professionals could prefer public school if it's always been the accepted route in the family.
Our attitude to educating our dc was never ever brought up with friends.