AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

[Solentseeker]

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

Well in an ideal world i very much agree, it should be "everyone welcome". But as to reasons we see on this thread, MN, and the wider world its not the case.
We seem to be losing a lot of kindness and humanity. The arts should be a place of warmth. I hope none of these women have a teen going though any sort of gender dysphoria.

Women opting out of womanhood isn't a fetish, it is usually to protect from male attention. Men on the other hand, are prone to fetishes and if you dare to google the number and type of fetishes that give men a sexual thrill, and there are many, you will be shocked.

I am unfortunate enough to have seen these fetishist men publish photos and videos of them doing unspeakable things in women's public toilets, changing rooms etc . It is extremely disturbing.

She's said she'd be fine with the group allowing men who aren't trans in.
It's just trans women she doesn't want there.
So it's not that she "doesn't want a bloke in a woman's space."

A trans woman is a bloke.

I understand your position but, unfortunately we have to be clear that all men have to be treated the same, the good and the bad. The good men KNOW this and respect women's boundaries. The BAD ones? They trample all over women's boundaries and call them names and threaten violence.

I don't know why every group needs to be opened up in order to be progressive. Sometimes women just want the company of women and that's fine.

Just ridiculous nonsense. We are fully entitled, by law, to single sex spaces. I bet you have NEVER told a transwoman to stop obsessing about whats in people's pants and just piss in the mens because not all men are violent, have you? The sexist double standards of the far left never fail to amaze me.

Ff's who knew knitting could be so complicated. Its put me right off joining the local group.

I thought she'd said she'd much prefer it to remain single sex, but if they are going to allow any males in, it has to be all males.

I believe the OP objects to the idea of any bloke adopting 'womanface' and finds the concept misogynistic and offensive.

• or at least that's what I gather from her posts.

@Solentseeker could you suggest an anonymous vote to whether the group should be open to others.

Ok, but why would she be fine with blokes who aren't trans in the group, but not fine with trans women in?
She's not objecting to blokes being there.

Yes. Men with the fetish of performing womanface to women are forcing those women to be part of the performance. I do not consent to help a man get off on being treated as a woman . Why can this man not attend as himself, a man? (if the group decides to admit men).

I mean same, i love going out with a group of women. But if someone trans of slightly different would come up to join, why not. Whatever your politics, is it not just rude at this point. Its a human.

Most of these terf types just see it as a boggyman coming to join. If that turned out to be the case, the person could just be asked to leave the knitting group (same with anyone being a c* in the group).

Attitudes are not cured by contributing to the problem. Having a group that is only for women and trans women is contributing to the problem that trans women do not feel safe in spaces with other men in them. This societal problem is not solved by pretending trans women are women, it just creates a way of making it acceptable for trans women to be kept away from male spaces whilst creating massive breaches in the security of women’s spaces.

Unless your numbers are declining and you are in need of growing the group I don't understand why this would be necessary to target and try to attract any one group of people over another

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people.

Maybe you could announce that you are are 'age friendly' and try to attract people from every decade, or 'disability friendly' and try to attract more disabled people.

Does the chairman have plans for maybe a different drive each month?

So its fine to have same sex spaces until men want to join and then we have to Be Kind and let them in with a smile? Does that apply to lesbian groups too?

I'm sure she'd rather not have ordinary men in the group, if she had the choice — it's more that...if you're going to make the group unisex by virtue of allowing in men who enjoy forcing women to pretend that they are also women, you might as well let in any normal bloke who's interested in knitting.

I think you have misunderstood some posts but that's alright I won't assume you are a disengenuous idiot .

The trans people i know are very sympathetic to the idea of predators and women such as yourself views. As people who are used to facing discomfort, they hate the idea of causing it for people. They are aware that the usual bad eggs ruin it for everyone. We discuss it often. Have YOU even met a trans person?

TwoPintsOfCherryadeAndAPacketOfQuavers · Today 11:22
SeaAndSangria · Today 11:21

A trans woman is a bloke.

Try telling them that!

It is NOT about "transpeople". It is never about transpeople, it is solely about MEN who pretend to be women and invade women's private spaces for fetish reasons. As has already be stated, women who opt out of being women are still welcome to attend.

I didn't say it wasn't valid. I'm allowed to think it's a pity, and to find it divisive, despite my own horrendous experience. I am allowed to think nothing will change if all we do is avoid each other.
If I had sons, I am not sure I would want them growing up being blamed and excluded for crimes they have not committed and attitudes they don't have. I don't like assumptions made about me before I open my mouth, based on my gender. I don't see why I should support that attitude in reverse.
It's taken me years to learn that my attacker is to blame. Not the the whole of mankind. His crime is not my brother or my husband, or my male colleague's crime.

Have you ever spent time with a non binary or trans person? They're generally not as scary as people on MN like to make out. Sure there are some bad apples, just like there are some bad women, some bad men. Bad white people, bad black people. Bad Muslims, bad atheist etc.

I think this type of policy is important to the younger members and will show that the place can continue to be a welcoming and open space for women. I doubt any trans women will join. I don't think you need to make a big stand or be radicalised here or elsewhere online to do so. Just keep enjoying the group, keep enjoying the chats, and be open about why you struggle with this policy but that you are up for a debate, not just a shutdown. These rows just run and run and the risk is that this place of sanctuary, community and belonging turn into turf (pardon the pun not intended!) wars. Good luck!

How about you actually answer my question first, before asking your own?

And by the way, I know two men who are lovely too, doesn't mean they all are or that we have to let men into our spaces, does it?