AIBU to tell my mum to stop asking about grandchildren?

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My partner and I both turn 40 in August. We've been together since we were 18 we met at university both studying Medicine and have been together ever since. Medicine at uni has that sort of environment where everyone in the same cohort kind of just sticks together. Everything I did was to do with medicine, I played hockey but that was medicines hockey etc. In a way slightly culty.

We've built the life we wanted. We both have careers we genuinely love. we've bought a house, have a great group of friends and close relationships with our families.

We've never really wanted children. I had an abortion at 35, and if anything it confirmed what we already knew. We both realised parenthood wasn't for us. We wouldn't want to bring a child into the world unless we were 100% committed to it, and we're not. We enjoy our life as it is. We like the freedom of deciding on a random day to go away for the night, eating out, travelling, spending time with friends and our nieces and nephews, and focusing on our careers.

Some people might call that selfish. Maybe it is. I'd actually rather be "selfish" than have a child because it's expected and then resent the lifestyle change. Children deserve parents who desperately want them.

I absolutely adore my nieces and nephews and happily spend time with them, but loving other people's children has never translated into wanting my own. I've never had that maternal calling, I know I would be a terrible mother and at nearly 40 I think it's safe to say the maternal instinct is not suddenly going to appear.

We're getting married in August. Neither of us is particularly interested in marriage itself, but from a practical point of view (next of kin, legal protections etc.) it just makes sense. We're having a very small registry office wedding in London followed by a nice meal with close family and friends. Exactly what we want.

The issue is my mum.For years she's brought up grandchildren. Every conversation seems to circle back to babies. I've repeatedly told her we're not having children and that the subject is closed.Recently she said, "Well then what's the point of life?"

That has shocked me. As though our lives somehow have less value because we've made a different choice. I don't judge people who have children most of the people I love do but I don't understand why some people can't accept that not everyone wants the same life.Eventually I'd had enough and told her to stop bringing it up because the answer isn't changing and I don't want every visit turning into the same conversation.

Now she's upset and thinks I was harsh.
AIBU? Should I just let her keep hoping and politely shut it down every time, or is it reasonable to expect her to accept that at nearly 40, after over 2 decades together, we've made our decision and it isn't up for debate?

Even when I’m 50 she will go on and on about it. It’s making me want to see her less every single time she talks about. A close friend of mine had her first baby recently I went to see her and meet her son. I sent a photo of me holding her son to my mum (this friend had known me since we were 7 and our mums are good friends) and my mum instead decided to comment on what I’m apprently missing in my life. Even added that my partner and I should hurry.

I can't see how you "lack empathy" at all; quite the opposite. The posters who are bending over backwards to defend your mother seem to.

A woman who told her happy, successful daughter that her life is meaningless. That is beyond cruel.

School hols isn’t it. Nothing worse than trawling the shops with the kids, but not always avoidable.

I'd make a few remarks about her own age and the expectations/prejudices of her age. "Mum do you have dementia because you've asked this before and you know the answer?" "Mum why aren't you in a care home yet?"

She's being mean, be mean back.

Can you not just lie to her and say that her continued requests is causing you and your partner distress as you're unable to conceive? I mean, what if that were the situation, would she still be harping on like this? Especially if she already has grandchildren, what's her problem?

I hope you understand that if you pester and demean your children for their choices like OP's mother has, they may tell you to fuck off.

It struck me that OP has said in a recent post that there are children in the wider family but her mother has nothing to do with them. I have step children and step grandchildren and I very much enjoy spending time with them. My mother absolutely could have enjoyed spending time with them, too, but they weren't blood so she didn't give a damn and actively avoided them. I can see why OP might find it difficult to understand a woman who demands grandchildren but appears to do nothing to spend time with children if that is something she would enjoy.

How come you know that life will be boring when you retire? Why should it be? You might end up having a ball. Once you've got doctoring out the way, you can get up to all sorts .... do the kinds of things you say your mum isn't doing.

I do understand what you're saying, and I don't think I've ever said my mum isn't allowed to feel disappointed. Of course she can. If she'd imagined having lots of grandchildren, I can absolutely understand why letting go of that picture would be sad but also that has nothing to do with me. Don’t have expectations that require other people to make life altering decisions to fulfil your own expectations.

Where I disagree is the implication that because I understand her disappointment I should somehow carry responsibility for fixing it or continue making space for conversations that revolve around changing my mind.
The retirement comparison is different because that's about circumstances taking something away from you. This isn't. My mum's expectation was always based on choices that were never hers to make. My life was never hers to plan beyond my childhood.

As for the photo, she asked for a photo maybe I should have ignored her messages explicitly asking for the photo. My bad. If that upset her, I can appreciate why in hindsight, but I don't think it follows that I lack empathy.

What I struggle with is that people seem to think empathy only has to flow one way. I've spent years listening to her hopes, reassuring her, explaining my reasons, and trying not to hurt her feelings. Where's the empathy for me? For repeatedly being told that my life is somehow less meaningful because I don't want children? Or being asked intrusive questions about my sex life because she can't accept my answer?

I can understand her sadness without accepting that it's my job to resolve it. Those are two different things. I don't resent her for wishing things had turned out differently. I resent that 20 years into the same relationship and at almost 40 years old my decision is still treated as temporary or negotiable rather than something that deserves the same respect as anyone else's life choices. I like to think its my body my choice maybe I’m wrong for that but at the end of the day it is my choice.

I hope you keep all those thoughts to yourself and never, ever reveal them to your DC.

Maybe your mistake is thinking that anyone who has 4 children loves children as much as you and spending time with them. Thats definitely not true. I was raised by narcissistic parents who saw having lots of kids as a way of seeming special. They didn’t play with us and I can’t recall having fun during my childhood. They also harped on about grandchildren but dislike spending time with and caring for grandchildren but have plenty of opinions on things like diet and childcare.

And as a mature adult, you can hopefully realise that sometimes life doesn’t work out the way you planned and you shut the fuck up rather than make other people feel bad about it.

I am now 60. Since my early 20s my reply to all enquiries (and there are / have been so very many enquiries) is that "I can't bear / bare children" and this leaves it up to the rude bitch/bastard enquiring to decide on which is the correct spelling.

The idea that you shouldn't send her a picture of you holding a friends baby because she's disappointed you arent having children is bonkers. She's not a friend struggling through infertility or something, she's just someone who wants to control what her daughter does with her life!

Exactly this. I have not seen her really interact with the wider family members children, some who are toddlers. She has explicitly said how annoying she finds them. That’s how I know she doesn’t really want to be a grandma, she would come visit my hypothetical children and not even take time to really interact with them I know her. This is just another one of those things where she feels she’s missing out on but in reality she would not be able to cope she wouldn’t be the hands on grandma she claims she wants to be.

Why is everyone bringing up the photo of my friends baby and I ? My mum explicitly asked for that photo. Was I supposed to ignore her ? I’ll make sure to do that next time then. My bad.

But what is OP supposed to do if she doesn't want children? Sure, she could be more understanding of her mum but it's still not going to change anything. It might make DM badger her more.

Would you keep badgering them though, would you sit at home wasting your life away if no grandchildren appeared. What if you don’t get 10 grandchildren, what if you only have one or none, what will you do?

You may not feel this way when the state says you can’t have a pension because there’s not enough young people to pay for it

Do you have a life of your own? It sounds like you may put pressure on your children to allow you to be involved in every aspect of their lives. Make sure you give them the freedom to grow up and make their own choices.

Show her this!

https://pin.it/6jW7IVFWP

(Sorry can't work out how to embed a pic but it's just a comic on Pinterest!)

Seriously though I understand where you're coming from, I'm one of five, a few years older than you, and only one of us ended up having children (and they stopped at one)
I don't think you're responsible to keep placating your mum, I agree with others that you need to keep being direct that you have made your position clear and that her bringing it up is hurtful. I do think you're being a little unfair about the fact she expected grandchildren though - our generation were the first really (in the west at least) to grow up with the idea that having children was a choice. For your mum's generation it wouldn't have been, and there would have been no reason for her to see life as anything other than youth -> marriage -> children -> empty nest -> grandchildren. And if the first part went to plan, there was no reason for her to think the next part would deviate. I suspect you getting married has given her false hope as well, if she's associated marriage with plans to start a family (again not your responsibility, but it's the common trend still)

this. Tell her that you will do it and then keep your word.

YANBU and you are also not selfish.

Selfish is when people have dc and are not prepared to let them cramp their style in the way that children, frustratingly, do.

Not having them is the only reasonable course given your feelings - which are perfectly, perfectly valid.

I am going to go against the grain and say I do feel sorry for your Mum and don't think she is "batshit" to long for GC. I am sure I will!

But that still isn't a good enough reason to bring a child into the world.

Also, I suspect she will give up commenting soon. She is probably panicking as she feels your window is closing - which she isn't wrong about.

But you should never feel pressured into having children: it isn't fair on them. I think you are very wise to be able to be honest with yourself about that.

I fully agree you shouldn’t have children you don’t want to have, but I find it ludicrous that two qualified doctors with 15+ year careers are claiming they can’t afford children. Please stop claiming that. The truth is you don’t want to afford children, but you absolutely could if you wanted to - which you don’t.

Also, you paint a picture of your mother as wealthy but lonely. Grandchildren are often a source of joy and company and it’s not unreasonable that your mother is sad that she doesn’t have this. Part of her may wonder where she went wrong in raising 4 children who are so against having children, a biological instinct for most people without which the human race wouldn’t be preserved. That fact is why she believed when she had 4 children it was most likely she would have grandchildren - statistics would suggest that not having any grandchildren with 4 children is incredibly unusual. None of this is to say you should have kids (you absolutely shouldn’t for the reasons you gave) but I think it’s very clear to everyone else why your mother so desperately wants/expected grandchildren. She never wanted to travel etc. as you suggest, she wanted a family (as was probably evident when she had 4 kids) and is sad that in her old age she doesn’t have the big family she envisioned and believed she was creating.

I don’t think she’s actually saying you or your siblings "owe" her grandchildren, or that it’s somehow your duty to provide her with some, is she? She’s just very disappointed not to have any. She’s wrong to keep going on about it, but I can understand her great disappointment. Of course you and your siblings must make your own decisions about whether or not to have children, without needing to take her wishes into account, but it can’t be denied that it is very unusual for none of 4 siblings to want children.

I have a good marriage and a successful career, but my two grandchildren (whose mother is, incidentally, a doctor) have enriched my life enormously. I sympathise with your mother, who won’t have that experience - but she’s still wrong to keep going on about it.

You sound cold and as if you believe that if you don't understand your mum's feelings she deserves no empathy. Of course your mum shouldn't go on about it but it does mean that her blood line ends for eternity, that she leaves no legacy, and that can make some people wonder what the meaning of life is and what was the point of it all. I feel sorry for your mum.

I am wondering if your childhood was not that happy and you resent your mum. I'm not saying that's wrong at all.