AIBU to tell my mum to stop asking about grandchildren?

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My partner and I both turn 40 in August. We've been together since we were 18 we met at university both studying Medicine and have been together ever since. Medicine at uni has that sort of environment where everyone in the same cohort kind of just sticks together. Everything I did was to do with medicine, I played hockey but that was medicines hockey etc. In a way slightly culty.

We've built the life we wanted. We both have careers we genuinely love. we've bought a house, have a great group of friends and close relationships with our families.

We've never really wanted children. I had an abortion at 35, and if anything it confirmed what we already knew. We both realised parenthood wasn't for us. We wouldn't want to bring a child into the world unless we were 100% committed to it, and we're not. We enjoy our life as it is. We like the freedom of deciding on a random day to go away for the night, eating out, travelling, spending time with friends and our nieces and nephews, and focusing on our careers.

Some people might call that selfish. Maybe it is. I'd actually rather be "selfish" than have a child because it's expected and then resent the lifestyle change. Children deserve parents who desperately want them.

I absolutely adore my nieces and nephews and happily spend time with them, but loving other people's children has never translated into wanting my own. I've never had that maternal calling, I know I would be a terrible mother and at nearly 40 I think it's safe to say the maternal instinct is not suddenly going to appear.

We're getting married in August. Neither of us is particularly interested in marriage itself, but from a practical point of view (next of kin, legal protections etc.) it just makes sense. We're having a very small registry office wedding in London followed by a nice meal with close family and friends. Exactly what we want.

The issue is my mum.For years she's brought up grandchildren. Every conversation seems to circle back to babies. I've repeatedly told her we're not having children and that the subject is closed.Recently she said, "Well then what's the point of life?"

That has shocked me. As though our lives somehow have less value because we've made a different choice. I don't judge people who have children most of the people I love do but I don't understand why some people can't accept that not everyone wants the same life.Eventually I'd had enough and told her to stop bringing it up because the answer isn't changing and I don't want every visit turning into the same conversation.

Now she's upset and thinks I was harsh.
AIBU? Should I just let her keep hoping and politely shut it down every time, or is it reasonable to expect her to accept that at nearly 40, after over 2 decades together, we've made our decision and it isn't up for debate?

Even when I’m 50 she will go on and on about it. It’s making me want to see her less every single time she talks about. A close friend of mine had her first baby recently I went to see her and meet her son. I sent a photo of me holding her son to my mum (this friend had known me since we were 7 and our mums are good friends) and my mum instead decided to comment on what I’m apprently missing in my life. Even added that my partner and I should hurry.

OP you seem to think that your ambition and career should mean it’s obvious you wouldn’t have wanted to have dcs, but from your mums perspective, you are working with children and clearly interested in them, she’s the generation who fought for women to “have it all”. even if your mum didn’t herself get involved in the feminist politics, there’s no reason your mum would have presumed it would have been one or the other for you, she probably looked at maternity rights and right to go part time, with you with a dh in a similar role and assumed you’d be the sort of couple where you both go part time when kids are little or hire a nanny (and she may have continued her support for your career by offering some free childcare)

You seem to think it’s a no-brainer that by encouraging her children to be ambitious, that grandchildren were ruled out.

Nobody owes their parents grandchildren and anyway yours already have some by the sounds of it.

Just tell your mum she already has grandchildren and she won't be getting any from you. And if she raises it again you change the subject and say what you do with your body isn't up for discussion.

And no, it's not an issue that well paid couples don't have children. There are too many people in the world already and the more people decide not to have any, or small families, the better.

Because in every other family I know of 4 children at least 1 has had children of their own. Can you really not see it’s a bit unusual that all 4 of you have opted out? My sister and sisters in law opted to not have children but there’s still grandchildren on both sides. Your mum probably just always hoped she would get to be a grandparent and that isn’t unusual or odd of her. I think you’re being quite cold in refusing to have empathy or see her perspective but you want her to understand that all 4 of you are opting out. It probably also chafes that she knows you have nieces and nephews on the other side.
Every paediatrician I know has their own children so she may have mistakenly taken that career choice as making it more likely you’d have your own too. You want her to back off and see your perspective but I’d start with a chat about hers too.
Id be gutted to never be a grandparent and I like to hope I’d not pressure my children and keep it to myself but she’s likely grieving that she won’t get to be a grandparent.

Her mum doesn’t. All 4 of her children have opted to not have children which I’m sure is hard to come to terms with.

Not necessarily what I meant. By encouraging me to make my own choices she should have expected me to make my own choice as to what I want my life to look like.

I also know I wouldn’t be a good mother, motherhood requires so much some people forget that. It’s not a decision we just made we did discuss and have realised we would be awful at it and it’s not fair for an innocent child to come into our chaotic world.

It's not that - it's that they don't want to have a child.

Why is it hard to come to terms with? I don’t get why she would care that none of her children chose to her children. At the end of the day it’s our choice and our lives not hers, we don’t exist for her. We gave us life, yes and I love her but I don’t owe her grandchildren. She should enjoy her own life.

If anything you need to be harsher.
"I'm not having this conversation again. I don't think you understand how much it upsets me that you keep asking, and yoyr comments suggesting a childfree life has no value are just hurtful. I know you would like grandchildren, I have fully got that message. You won't succeed in nagging me into providing them, only in upsetting me. Please stop."

My mum actually cried about my not wanting children. I can't express how upset, hurt and angry it made me feel. Really like I - her actual daughter - wasn't enough and also that I was failing her and being selfish by not providing grandchildren. How she wouldn't have grandchildren like her sibling did...

As it happens I did change my mind, had years of fertility difficulties and did not breathe a word of it to her because of how she makes everything about her and would have acted like my struggles and losses were her own. I only told her when I finally had a pregnancy that seemed to be working out and couldn't hide it because I was vommiting lots and was spending days with her at the time. We were lucky enough to have our child and bloody hell, didn't I get quickly relegated in her priorities for years.

It’s odd that she’s still bringing it up when you have emphatically told her you don’t want to have children, it would also drive me potty so I would have to be really blunt and tell her again that you’re not having any, you don’t regret not having any and your life is just a meaningful as someone who has children and to really drop it.
She may well be grieving for the life she thought she’d have, bouncing grandkids on her knees but that doesn’t give her a right to keep nagging about it.
One of my DH siblings is child free by choice, their mum doesn’t nag them but then she’s not that involved with her grandchildren so perhaps that’s the difference.

Also if I’ve understood, you are child2 of 4, your older sibling can’t have children but the younger two don’t want to either? That’s actually less surprising as it does seem to be from my experience that those from a big family tend to view the Idea of having dcs needs to be like the family they had, which would be hard to juggle with a career and expensive and draining, rather than only having one or two dcs which seems easier to fit round still having a career and still having time for hobbies and fun things.

Why on earth did you send her a photo of you holding a baby? You surely could have foreseen the response you would get!

No I get that and it’s enough on its own but they also say they don’t have enough money which is a sad state of affairs for two working doctors including a specialist not to be able to afford s child ( if they did want one)🤔

Once she said for the first time to her mum that she doesn’t want kids, it is obvious and the mum pushing it is just rude and inconsiderate. Boo hoo, your children don’t want to have kids. There are worse problems in life.

However from what the OP said, the mum
doesn't have a life of her own and that explains a lot.

Your mother should stop asking you intrusive questions; that's a deeply unhelpful way to carry on. On the other hand, I am quite surprised that you can't see why a woman who clearly loved being a mother (enough to have 4 children!) is finding it difficult to come to terms with the fact that not one of those 4 children wants to have children of their own. Of course you don't "owe" it to her. Equally, it's entirely understandable that she's sad about it. It's something she wanted to happen in her life and it isn't going to; what's more, she has no control over whether it happens or not.

If you want to sort it out, perhaps it's worth having a conversation where you explain how uncomfortable her questions make you feel, but also acknowledge the feeling of loss she has for a later life she (not unreasonably) anticipated, but which is not now going to be available to her.

She asked. It was my childhood friend’s baby and our parents are close

We had to tell my wife's mother we couldn't have children to get her to shut up. It was true as it happens but we had not wanted to share that.
Worked a treat though as she didn't want to upset us by talking about kids after that.

I think this post proves you’re right about not having children. Maybe just show her this & it’ll be more than apparent.

you don’t owe your mom gc, that’s completely right but has she never done anything to deserve your empathy? Of course she has visions on how her life would be, she’s done exactly what you do. You envision life in retirement of travel and hobbies (all being well that’ll happen) but life throws curve balls & I’m sure you’d be disappointed if that didn’t come to fruition. With 4 kids you’d think gc would be part of it. She’s been unlucky that it won’t be & for that I feel for her

plus you’ve come to a group that’s called mumsnet and asked predominantly mothers for an opinion. Whilst I get the right to reply to people I sense frustration that you don’t like it if people even show a tiny bit of support for your mom, (I’ve seen no one agree with her but people have expressed sympathy). Mothers tend to naturally sympathetic. It’s a switch that’s pushed the minute we have children.

I fail to see what's difficult to come to terms about your adult DC living life how they want to and doing what makes them happy. As I said upthread my DD has chosen not to have DC and she's my only child so like OP's mum there will be no GC for me. I care not a jot about that though because my DD has a good and happy life and that's enough for me.

She also said they can't afford it

No you don’t owe her grandchildren. But can you not understand a person - man or woman - wanting to have the last third or quarter of their lives with children and grandchildren around them? Just like you and your father and happy to travel and pursue hobbies, she’d be happy to be with children and grandchildren. Neither is better or worse, superior or inferior to the other. They’re just different. You’re as bad as she is in denying her this preference (as she seems to be denying you yours). This isn’t a feminist statement of independence from societal normal that you’re making; it’s deliberate myopia about how different people are, well, different.

unless they had kids at 15, of course they experienced life when they were child-free!

Life pre children is not the same as life without children knowing you will never have them.m

I don’t think anyone said that it’s your duty to provide her with grandchildren or that you are responsible for her disappointment , just to recognise that she is disappointed. Having had four children she probably thought she would have grandchildren one day. Of course you need to tell her that keep raising the topic will affect your relationship. I think the posters mentioning that she’s disappointed are just encouraging you to be more sympathetic to her. That doesn’t mean it’s your problem.
You and your siblings have all done very well and she has probably seen her role as a Mum as central to her identity. She needs to accept that you have chosen a different and very fulfilling path.

I think some people find it hard to understand that not every woman wants children. We are led to believe that all women are maternal, nurturing and therefore must become a Mum.

There are plenty of women in this world OP, who shouldn't have had children, because they are ultimately too selfish and self-centred to put their children before their own wants.

You have decided along with your husband, a very long time ago, that being parents isn't something that either of you want. You enjoy your career and life as it is, and don't see children as part of your life. That's absolutely OK, it doesn't make you a terrible person or a selfish one.

What would make you selfish, is having a baby, to conform to what your Mum's ideology of being a woman is. Bringing a baby into the world, when neither you or your husband want to be a parent, to please others or what society thinks is 'correct', would be wrong.

If you've upset your Mum, then that's not your fault. She's been repeatedly told you don't want children, yet she keeps making digs. She's entitled to feel disappointed that she won't be a grandmother (I assume your nieces/nephews are on your husband's side) but she doesn't get to keep punishing you for your choices. I think you need to be blunter to be honest... completely shut any conversation down. Hang up, walk away, simply say 'Stop, we are not having this conversation', each time.

I’m busy confused why she would be sad. It’s my life I get to live in how I want I shouldn’t be pressured to give her grandchildren. That’s not me not being empathetic I just can’t fathom it why does she care. I know I wouldn’t care what someone else chooses to do with their life. Maybe she got unlucky no one asked her to have children. I just don’t think children owe their parents anything. I speak to her I go and see her often, if she gets ill I will look after her. I just don’t see why she would envision a life through her children. You shouldn’t have children in hopes of grandchildren and so on. You should have children because you want those children and you shouldn’t be sad at the choices that they make, within reason I’ve done everything right in my life. I can’t see why she can’t just be proud of the person my siblings and I turned out to be. My eldest brother is a pilot and a great man that’s thanks to our parents we are all appreciative of them but also we don’t owe them anything and most importantly I don’t personally believe we owe them children. My mum decided to have 4 kids. My father is progressive he did not ‘force’ her she chose that. If she wanted people to control then she shouldn’t have had children and educated them.

No, the OP is not "just as bad" as the mother on this. If she is disappointed, she can keep it to herself rather than constant and intrusive questioning and frankly breath-taking rudeness in suggesting there is no meaning to the OP's life. If you have kids for what you expect them to do for you or give you, you'd be better off not having any, frankly. No person owes anyone else to give them children. I can understand the mum is disappointed but she is unreasonable in being disappointed and should instead be happy that her kids are happy and content. She sounds like the sort of person who would prefer that their child is miserable but socially conforming than happy.