To think I should be able to take my daughter on holiday

[jj3457]

Hi everyone. I know some people may not like this, but I am a dad posting, just looking for some advice.

I told my ex I would like to take our daughter (3) on holiday to spain for 5 days with me and my mum.

Now this is where I messed up, and I will hold my hands up. I was dishonest when I told her I would be going with my mum. We will actually be going with my partner who my ex hasn’t met. I know this was a stupid lie but I was just worried my ex wouldn’t give consent for the holiday if she knew who was actually going.

To make matter worse, my ex has now found out that my mum is actually going to Florida for 2 weeks at the time I said she was coming to Spain with us.

My ex has messaged to say that she will not be handing over the passport until I give explicit details about the travel. I know that once I tell her I’m going with my partner she will refuse to consent. The holiday is booked and paid for.

I know I’m in the wrong for being dishonest but I am on the birth certificate and have as much right as she does to take her on the holiday. My ex has taken her abroad several times before and this is my first time.

what can I do if my ex refuses to give consent?

thanks

You must think you're a fairly crap father if you knew your ex would only allow your child to go on holidays with you if your mother was there to mind her.

Enjoy your childfree trip.

I don’t know about legally but morally you are on dodgy ground. Your daughter is only 3 and you have hidden the fact that she is spending time with your new partner from her mother.

The right thing to do would have been;

1. wait until you are absolutely sure this is a long term relationship.
2. tell your child’s mother about the relationship and thing TOGETHER as parents about how best to introduce this new person into your daughters life.
3. as a mother I would want to meet the new partner if she is likely to be a big part of my child’s life at that age.
4. then discuss going away as a family if 3 - which had the above all been done, would be easy.

How can she trust you to do the right thing for your daughter if you lie to get to what YOU want. Your daughter would be happy to go on holiday with just you, so this is all about you and your needs and not the best interests of your child.

To throw everything out there have you done a Sarah’s law on your girlfriend?

People would often be telling a dad to do one on a new boyfriend being around his young child so same should apply to a new girlfriend.

Make sure she’s not dodgy. Though a smart mum would be actioning one now to help hold up her no holiday with my daughter stance. As they take awhile.

Honestly I'd worry about your ability to care for a child at all after doing something so fucking stupid.

Because he probably wanted to perform 'father of the year' for the new woman, seen it hundreds of times before - men who usually aren't interested stepping up with grand gestures to impress the new woman. Sad.

Wouldn’t your daughter tell her mum who she was on holiday with anyway?!

Your dd will have told mum that your partner was on holiday so you’d be found out like that.

It was a stupid lie because

1. Your partner deserves not to be a secret
2. You’re allowed to move on
3. dd should be allowed to say things like she went on holiday with you and partner.
4. you’ve created drama where there doesn’t need to be any.

You should have taken the legal route if you are reasonably confident that your ex wouldn’t give permission. This would have covered future holidays as well (assuming that you went for a reasonable amount like a week every summer now and 2 or 3 weeks when she’s a bit older)

Your ex isn’t at all unreasonable to be angry about your lie. She’ll be second guessing every word that you say now and if you got on well up to now, you’ll have ruined your good co-parenting. If you didn’t get along, she has more reason to be angry at you.

Allowing your child to be away from you in someone else's care is the greatest act of trust you can ever undertake. You literally proved you can't be trusted. The consequences should be obvious.

You also need to remember that what a parent is ‘entitled’ to is not what matters. What matters is what is best for the child.

it would be perfectly possible for you to tell your girlfriend that she can’t come even this late in the day and to go alone with your daughter. She might be pissed off with you - but too bad, she’s not the one whose needs come first here.

That’s what a good dad would do to put the child first and also to claw back some trust in your relationship with her mother.

Having 2 adults with a young child is often a good idea, as id one gets ill (or wants to shower!) there's an extra pair of hands. Obviously it depends who the adults are, but there's a lot of people who are happier to leave their kids with grandparents if at least 2 grandparents are going to be there most of the time.
A lot of people don't like doing childcare alone for long and think it's better/safer for the child to have 2 people.

As the mother would you trust him now if he said the gf wouldn’t be going? Because I Wouldn’t.

At the very least can you show from the booking arrangement that your three year old won’t be sleeping in the same room as an unrelated adult? This may reassure her, but after the lies I’d wonder what the fuck you were up to to be honest

The legalities of it are irrelevant as you don't have time to get it to court now.

Bottom line, rather than going legal, you need to gain/regain the trust of your ex through your actions going forward over time, show her that you are able to be trusted. You lied, so of course she is now questioning everything. Spend your efforts building a good co parenting relationship.

Taking a 3 year old away solo, assuming you have a good relationship and she already spends loads of overnights with you, totally fine. I was travelling abroad solo with mine since they were babies.

But I wouldn’t be as comfortable with another adult going, especially one i didn’t know or trust. Then it becomes an adult holiday. If Dh and BIL went away, for example, the focus of the holiday would become drinking and adult things, staying up late, probably not supervising all that well, especially with one adult who isn’t used to parenting a child. Dh going away solo, totally different, not a drinking holiday anymore, but one where he could get our dc to bed on time, co-sleep with them as necessary, do child rather than adult things. I think it changes the tone and focus to make it a couples holiday.

Why not just go away and have a lovely time with your dd? You can go away with your partner anytime.

Has your ex ever taken your child abroad with a bloke you have never met?

You need to be honest now and say your girlfriend will be there and your daughter has met her and is comfortable with her. That she's welcome to meet gf before the trip if that makes her feel better. That you won't be leaving daughter alone with her on the holiday and that you'll make sure daughter has a great time.

You'll need a court order but you've left it too late for this holiday.

Why aren't you parenting your child more than 6 days a month? That's quite sad.

We don't have rights to our children, we have responsibilities.

Sounds like the mum is being responsible here, in not trusting the father who only has his child one night every other weekend, who has told a huge lie, and who wants the child to go away with, and presumably share a bedroom with, a partner she doesn't know or have any background info on - mostly because the dad has lied and not been upfront.

Who the primary/ resident parent is also matters hugely when children are this young. DH and I are together, both very active and involved parents, and she would have struggled with a whole week away from me in a strange country at age 3 - I'm not saying she wouldn't have coped if circumstances had absolutely dictated it, but it wouldn't have been in her best interests. She's have been fine on a week away with me without her dad - as much as she loved him and may have missed him, it just wouldn't have been the same and he'd tell you that as much as I would (she's nearly 6 now and it's different again for the record). I'd imagine that's only magnified when the child is not used to spending such long time with the dad, and the dad and his partner aren't used to parenting her for any stretch of time either.

A parent who cares more about their 'right' to take a child abroad or their 'right' to do this that and the other, more than what is actually best for that child, is one I'd have concerns about too.

And finally - teaching your child to lie to a parent is a huge safeguarding concern for me. I'd be beyond livid if someone was expecting my child to lie about who they were/ had been on holiday with - the mum in this case is the resident parent, she's the one who is dealing with 90% of all parenting, schools/ childcare settings, friendships etc - it is absolutely not ok to teach a child that they should keep secrets from the parent who is responsible for them most of the time. Even if the holiday was nothing but rainbows and lolipops, it's teaching a lesson in that child's mind and the next time someone says 'don't tell mummy' they'll be easier to convince. I'd really not trust anyone who tried that, and my child would be going nowhere with them until they proved they understood how big of a fuck up it was.

@jj3457 - this holiday isn't happening, you've messed up hugely, and I'd work on honest and mutually respectful co-parenting, building trust, and spending more/ longer periods time with your daughter - building up so that both your ex and your child are comfortable with it. Put her first.

Does the mother need to give written permission for her child to travel abroad without her? My kids were older when I started travelling with them/without their dad and immigration took their time making sure the kids were travelling legitimately. I remember another parent having to give the dad a signed letter when her kids travelled without her.

Parenting every other weekend and now you want to spend a week with her - abroad, away from the child's familiar surroundings and routines with a woman she barely knows...
Think about your daughter and what's best for her, because travelling with small children is tough at the best of times with both parents and unless she's a super chilled child it's not going to be easy.

Look you do have the right to take your daughter away. You can get a single issue order (not sure of exact terminology) to support your right to do this.
But the holiday is next week. So frankly I'd be going to your ex with your tail between your legs and apologise
Hold your hands up and say you lied because you were nervous about her reaction. That you've realised that was stupid and you will never do that again. That you want to still take DD away and that your partner will be there. Tell her she has the right to object and withhold the passport given the timeframes but that you would rather she didnt. Tell her that if she does then you'll apply to court to get the right to go on holiday with DD so that this will be sorted for future but you dont want to go down this road if possible you would prefer to be amicable and ypu promise to be honest in future.

As others have said, the lie is the thing that has messed everything up.
The fact that your ex was happy for you to take DD with your mum is a really good sign for future trips, but this time I think if she refuses, you just have to own it.

There is never a one size fits all for whether this kind of thing is right or wrong. I wouldn't let anyone take my DD (also 3) away for multiple days without me. Not even her dad. I'm her primary care giver and we both adore her dad and trust him, but until my DD is a bit bigger it just wouldn't happen. We come as a pair.

You lied to your kid's mother. You didn't come clean about it until you got caught. You want what you want and you're willing to lie about it to get it. You fucked up right there.

Your kid is 3. Going solo with 1 parent, ok. Going solo with one parent and their mom, ok. Going solo with GF the child's mom has never met, not ok.

Uninvite your GF or stay home all of you. A 3 year old used to UK weather is going to be hot and bothered and might not really enjoy Spain. Do you guys speak Spanish at home? Sometimes being surrounded by a language they don't understand can really upset toddlers.

You need to grow up and be a better Dad, at present you barely see your DD and you're already trying to organise secrets behind your co parents back. Surely if your daughter is three you can't have been with this woman for very long at all. Leave DD with her Mum and once you're back prioritise working on your relationship with your DD.

I see why you lied about the holiday - my mother used us kids as a weapon against my dad and we ended up missing out on a lot growing up because of her behaviour. We don’t have a relationship with mother now because of this, and we are all very close to my dad.

It may not be a similar scenario and I guess all you can do is try and not give up. You will get a holiday with your DD one day and your DD will appreciate your efforts.

For now, just be honest with your ex - if she says no because she’s being controlling then don’t give up. My mother took us on holidays with blokes she hadn’t been with for long at all, yet denied us holidays with my dad and his partner who they’d both known since teens (and who had kids herself the same age).

Edited to add - please fight for more than every other weekend. This isn’t enough in my opinion. My dad fought hard for me, it cost him a lot financially but I will be forever grateful for him doing this, I loved spending time with him 🩷

Yes if your holiday involves taking a small child who you spend very little time with out of the uk.
Also after you having lied to get consent with the intent of having a 3 year old lie for you, you have proven that you are not only incapable of putting your dds needs 1st or safeguarding her youve shown yourself to be completely untrustworthy and a manipulative liar so good luck getting a judge to sign off on you ever taking her abroad before she turns 16.

My advice would be to stop looking for ways that you can continue to lie to your ex and manipulate her into doing what you want. Be honest tell her everything including the fact that your new girlfriend will be there and sharing a room with your dd, share all the flight and room bookings with her mum and hope that she is more trusting and forgiving than most people would be in this situation and let's her go but tbh your ex would be an absolute moron to allow this trip to go ahead