To be annoyed at the assumption that I am a Mrs?

[Cheeseandolivesplease]

So I completed a update form at the dentist for myself and my daughter; the ones they routinely hand out. It didn't ask for my title, but I ticked the "married" box.
Next thing I know, my name pings up on the screen as Mrs .
Just no!!
At the end of my appointment I went to ask for it to be corrected, but AIBU to be annoyed at the assumption?
A bit like the thread today referring to the new prime minister's wife as Mrs Burnham. She is Ms van Heel.

@QuintadosMalvados What's your definition?

The difference is that the boy gets the Mr title upon becomming an adult, and therefore deserving of enhanced position in society by default. A woman could not achieve an enhanced position unless via marriage to a man, who becomes her new owner by giving her his name.

I find the whole 'Mrs Husband' thing gross. I can't understand why some women want to continue with all that old clap trap.

I think the reason I’m insulted if someone calls me Mrs. instead of Ms. Is that by doing so they’re either just unquestioningly accepting the patriarchy as a norm (and I don’t believe it is for women like me), or they’re thinking I’m somewhat uneducated, or non-feminist or, perish the thought, a ‘trad wife’ and somehow my husband is considered more important in our marriage. Either way, it’s disappointing (and wrong!).
*edited, as misspelled patriarchy (Freudian slip?)

Well I've never heard of all this before. I assumed that a married woman is a Mrs. This is all news to me. So I would be really annoyed if someone was annoyed that I (understandably) presumed they were Mrs if they were married. I shall obviously think differently moving forwards......

Well you should certainly use Ms in a modern professional setting, that's for sure.
If I'm ever in a position where I have to send a formal letter to a married woman or some such thing it will be Ms all the way!

I wouldn't be that concerned about using it outside of those circumstances.
It's a small sample but most women who voted here don't give a toss and may even get offended if you don't call them Mrs!
So it's now a matter of not being able to win either way.
Personally I would not like being addressed to as 'Ms', it would be a niggle but would I say anything? No. I don't think it's worth making a fuss over.

I'm sure they can 'use their words' and say 'I prefer to be called' Ms', thanks.'
If they do that to me I will say sorry, hopefully they'll say that's OK and I'll call them Ms from that point onwards.

I don't think that people are literally saying you belong to your dh when they call you Mrs, anyway.
I think that's crap.
Women work, mortgages are usually joint, people can divorce.

If I know the woman is the breadwinner earning lots of money, the man is a sahd and have literally reversed traditional gender roles (no judgement on that) and she knows I know this how she could interpret that I believed her to be a good little housewife by calling her Mrs is something I don't understand.

I mean no disrespect, but she's the one holding the power in this particular situation. That's obvious.

This is the first time I've read this thread in full.
I'm not one to go digging up other posters history, but another poster flagged it up.

I believe that you @Cheeseandolivesplease started a thread about engagement rings.

Fair enough.
Aren't they also traditionally associated with patriarchy and signifying the woman is now the property of the man?

This, of course, is a rhetorical question because of course that's what they symbolise. Everybody knows that.

Men don't wear them, do they.

Pick and choose feminism, eh?

I have to admit that i hate engagement rings, it's not quite as offensive as expecting me to change my name, but you might as well ask me if i want to get branded as well while we're at it.

@QuintadosMalvados
And yet again you make assumptions!
Both DH and I wore rings to signify our engagement.
HTH?

I can respect that.
You seem to live your life in accordance with your principles.

What I do not respect is women who insist on being called 'Ms' (though of course others should call her that if that's what she wants out of politeness. We've been through all this) as if they're making a feminist statement against the patriarchy but wear engagement rings.

I'm sorry but engagement rings are a symbol that the woman belongs to the man.

They just are and everybody knows it.

I've never once known of a man wear one. Ever.

@QuintadosMalvados Read my recent post. My DH and I both wore 'engagement" rings.
Good try.

I've no way of knowing whether that's true or not.
I've never known it happen, though. Ever.

Doesn't matter, anyway, because unless the both of you don't ever go out without each other, in which case I suppose people would think they both own each other, it's not relevant.

In other words, if you go out to work etc without him, which I'm going to assume you do, anybody who knows f* all about you will think, on glancing at your finger,

Ah that is a woman who upholds the traditional sign of ownership in the patriarchy i.e. An engagement ring.
I would.

Surely somebody who is as anti-patriarchy as your self doesn't want to perpetuate this tradition by signalling that you're OK with that?

I'd have thought that the thing to do is simply not wear one.
But there you go.

@QuintadosMalvados In essence, I wasn't going to follow any "tradition" my husband wasn't prepared to observe as true equals. This also works the other way, of course.
A few examples - rings, name "change" (adding on), going out to earn a living, shared care of our daughter (including parental leave), paying on dates etc.

"good try"
Are you 10 yrs old?

I didn't wear an engagement ring at all. They aren't compulsory.

@Cheeseandolivesplease and @QuintadosMalvados

Get a room you two!

@EvieBB Well I still can't work out how old you are considering you've never once heard of a married Ms?

That’s a stretch and doesn’t have much to do with changing your name and title at all.
You can choose to wear jewellery symbolising internal love/ is meaningful to you.
You don’t need be called a sub title (of Mr) all your life just because you chose a life partner.

Ms is the equivalent of Mr. End of. Everyone clinging to Miss and Mrs is putting marital status before identity.

It's not a stretch at all given that her objection to being called Mrs is based on the fact it's all about the fecking patriarchy.

The OP specifically says 'engagement ring'.
She does not say a piece of jewellery to symbolise 'enduring love' which could be a matching necklace.
I'd be then OK, fair enough.

There is absolutely no doubt that an engagement ring is a patriarchal symbol that a woman now belongs to the man who gave it to her. None.

Not even those who have disagreed with me are denying this.

It's effectively saying 'hands off!!' to any other man who sees it.

Men don't wear them, do they?
Course not.

So I disagree, wearing an engagement ring AND making a fuss about being called 'Mrs' because it's patriarchal is pick and choose feminism.

Don't want to be known as 'Mrs', OK, but don't berate me for making an error in good faith when you've got a sparkling ring on the finger on your hand that effectively says, 'I belong to a man'.

Stop thewhataboutery. The objection to being asked a choose a title based on marriage is the inequality of it. Men are Mr regardless of marriage. Obviously women can choose ms but that leads to assumptions. They should not have to choose and other people choosing a title for you based on whether you are married is even worse.

@walrushurricane @u3ername
Absolutely this. And what that particular poster is choosing to ignore is the fact that both DH and I chose to wear rings when we got engaged. Neither were "sparkly" as that poster also assumes engagement rings to be. We were marking our promise to each other as we chose to whilst still not giving any "nod" to the patriarchy.
There was no difference in what we did here.
Unlike traditional titles.

I don’t think we do ourselves any favours by being so petty about a complete non-issue. Actually can’t believe this thread has run for so long!

@BermudaRhombus I can guess you are a married Mrs. Of course it matters!!

I think wasting headspace on stuff like this is bonkers. There are far more important things to worry about!

I've explained that unless you are joined at the hip, anybody who sees you not with your husband wearing an engagement ring, who knows nothing about you will assume that you are adhering to the patriarchal tradition of male ownership of the woman by wearing such an item.

By wearing your ring, you are, like it or not, adhering to a patriarchal custom.

It does not matter if your dh wears one, you are not physically together and nobody has a fecking clue why he's wearing it as it is simply not usual for a man to wear one.
If I saw your dh wearing his 'engagement' ring it wouldn't register at all that it was symbolic of anything. I may think oh that guy's wearing a ring.

You, on the other hand, I would assume were a traditional woman who had no issues with patriarchal customs such as women wearing engagement rings.

And as you are so keen on doing away with patriarchal traditions, I'd assume you would not wear one in the first place.

Women who separate/divorce , in my experience, almost immediately do not wear their rings any more.
They may take a few months to get rid of the 'Mrs' title, if at all.

It always interests me how often women who have no experience of being a married Ms nevertheless feel comfortable telling women who do have that experience how they should discuss it.