What is going on in this house?

[Neighbourmystery]

Right, this is going to sound nosy but here goes...
A house in a street I know was owned by an old lady with no family. When she died, her house stood empty for nearly a year then it started having work done. It's been bought by a health service far away from he town we live in (think I live in Liverpool and NHS Devon and Cornwall bought it) BTW these are not the real locations. So, they do lots of renovations, including putting a much higher fence up which has a key code entry they also put frosted film on every window. There's a new build extension on the side with coded keypads too. This is where 2 carers are. There are 4 carers altogether, 2 at a time and then a swap. There is one man who lives there . He is in his 30s , able bodied can move well etc I've seen him once or twice in the garden in a whole year. Another twice I saw a darkened van come to get him. He was only gone for an hour or so then back.
I cannot imagine the scenario this might be. I'm not curtain twitching and permanently watching but I am fascinated.

My OH does it, 80 miles into london, train is too expensive and would take too long anyway, hes not on a high income, he works for public services. He has never been able to get a job local to us. So he drives in, takes ages.

It can actually be a lot more expensive to have people who need supported living in a hospital than in a private house in the community as a lot of these hospitals are run by private companies https://www.mencap.org.uk/press-release/over-half-billion-pounds-year-spent-locking-people-learning-disability-and-or

The trouble with that article is that it doesnt give enough detail about exactly why these patients were detained. It also mentions hospitals, are these private hospitals that the NHS are outsourcing to?

No rage here, simply surprised that this is a thing that happens, never heard of it before. Still can't quite believe the state pays for this (given the dire situation most public services find themselves in), there must be a very good reason for it.

I am aware of sheltered housing (& have two of these schemes v near me) and I have a friend whose disabled brother requires 24 hr 2-on-1 care and lives in a home so just assumed these were the only options.

Of course these are expensive too. And of course I am very happy to pay for this via tax.

Having an individual on their own with multiple carers seems very risky in terms of quality of care, there is something reassuring about a more communal setting with constant management presence etc. But I guess the risk of having them near others must outweigh this risk.

Still wild that this is a thing imo!

Sorry I’ve read about 75% but not all of the thread

@Neighbourmystery have you researched the NHS Trust they are from ? It’s clear that a mental health trust is a mental health trust, it may yield answers.

Being an ex offender doesn't require carers.

It will almost certainly be a social care placement for someone with complex learning/mental health difficulties who requires 2:1 care.

This is not uncommon if you have someone who is large/strong and can lash out if dysregulated.

living in a shared residential home and being able to spend time with other people are two entirely different things. No one is saying that people can’t have visitors and social interaction, it’s just safer that they don’t share a home with many other people who are also vulnerable. Also in their own home they will have a kitchen and a bathroom and living area where they can autonomously feed themselves and entertain themselves, someone in solitary confinement has no such ability. residential homes often have communal dining areas, for some people this is a huge trigger point and it’s not safe for them to do that. At home they can eat with a family member or a friend and carers. In a residential care if they can’t eat in the dining room it means being alone in their room to eat.

Seriously? This is a mystery movie level style set up and if you wouldn’t be curious then that makes you very much not the norm!

why are you specifying men as if women with the same diagnosis aren’t capable of the same things?

Excellent post.

I would also add the rules are the same for anyone who needs care at home. It’s just less likely that a person who is young and has complex high support needs will own a house in the first place, because they are disabled. So the insinuation that old people are being shafted whilst this young man rakes in tax payer money is ridiculous.

But they're generally not.

Women are usually smaller, lighter and not as strong, thats a biological fact.

And then there is the statistic that the vast VAST majority of violent acts are carried out by men. Put the two together and yes, it is far more likely to be men.

We looked after mum at home - dementia, but not classed as complex care. She was assessed as needing four visits a day. Most were around half an hour to 45 minutes long and the carers would offer help around the house if personal care didn’t take up the whole visit. Mum was never moved into a care home because she never needed to be, and didn’t want to be. You can’t just move someone into full time care if they object - regardless of capacity. We had support in place from GP, district nurses and other services, along with a hospital bed in a downstairs room. We were luckier than most in that we were retired and able to move her in with us.

That’s an important point - certain posters seem to be making exactly that assumption. And there’s an underlying sense of NIMBY throughout the whole thread.

I probably just have more going on in my life.

My experience was via disability outreach and support, and that included supporting those living with family members with a range of severe MH issues, Autism and cognitive/learning disabilities. Mostly they were adult children, often times much bigger and stronger than the parents. It’s my experience that the behavioural difficulties and violence these families endured at the hands of their relatives was determined by their condition, not their sex. The levels of violence were similar from both sexes.

@Neighbourmystery I’m glad you started this thread - I would be curious too if this happened near me. I haven’t read your thread as anything other than you being curious.

It’s also sparked interesting posts from people who have experience and knowledge of social care which hopefully will help educate some people who are ignorant about this kind of thing.

Agree. I’ve seen it in my professional capacity. I’ve supported families living with adult children suffering from these conditions who are violent and family members have been repeatedly assaulted. Many have safe rooms where they barricade themselves to avoid harm during meltdowns. Support and provision is patchy across the country and these people are difficult to place into care settings, for obvious reasons. Often these secure assisted living places are far away from their original home towns - provision is non existent in some areas, and funding is complex.

Same here, the vast majority of children Ive had under DOLs are female teens. Huge amounts of criminal damage and frequent assaults on staff.

When I had already told them that I was talking about complex care, hence the dementia infirmity angle I took as their continuing argumentative posting.
have you read the whole thread? You would then see posts in a logical order

It would be LA carers and the funding would depend on the circumstances. If someone has their own funding pot they would be expected to contribute until they are below thresholds for funded care.

So essentially your mother was living with family - who are primary carers and the social care was simply in addition.

That’s a very different scenario from someone who lives alone. With later stage dementia 4 visits is nowhere near sufficient, they need someone with them 24/7.

For social care assessment the value of a person’s home is included as total capital if moving into a care home, but generally ignored they stay in their own home.

Your mother did neither - so I guess you didn’t sell her home when she moved in with you otherwise its value would have counted towards her total assets and presumably she wouldn’t have qualified for state care.

You certainly can move a person into a care home against their will if they lack capacity (assuming they actually understand the question). It may be the only way to safeguard them.

I did read the thread, it’s a moot point who was more argumentative tbh.

I’ve never said anything of the sort.

But discussion of the increasing numbers of dementia patients is an important consideration within social care. State 121 care is not available at home for elderly people for more than 4 short visits a day unless they require complex care. Once their money runs out they are generally put into care homes which can be very patchy in terms of care provision.

More likely doesn’t mean its never women though, so my question still stands.

Sorry, i didn’t mean to suggest that you said that, i meant the thread in general has people suggesting that. But i didn’t make that clear.

re your second point; the same is true for anyone who needs care. Most people who have LD or MH issues that require lots of care live in group residential accommodation. If that isn’t the case it’s for a very specific reason.
@Neighbourmystery I might have missed you replying, but how do you know that the NHS bought the house?
People are also assuming that this house was bought and renovated for this person specifically, when it could be that the house was purchased and renovated and this person just happened to be the next on the list for this kind of accommodation.
It could also be true that the person bought the house themselves from inheritance or a personal injury payout, and the NHS just provides the care.