AIBU to think my SIL's influence will fade without my in-laws?

[DecadesLongSaga]

Last week we went for an in-law lunch including my PIL, SIL and her partner. I have come away, as per usual, feeling insulted, ignored and despised and it has lingered for a few days. I am sick of it.

My MIL and SIL are in constant dramas with their extended family. There is always some falling out, someone crying over comments made to each other and petty feuds. They constantly bitch about the women in their family saying babies are ugly, people are stupid and got rubbish jobs, laugh at how someone has aged, and spin a small comment into something massive. The things they say about the women married into the family are just awful.

My MIL has a very cruel tongue, and has always been the matriarch. Her DC and DH are terrified of her. A few years ago she openly started encouraging her DD to take over her matriarch role and all of a sudden she started telling us all what to do, and being extra rude to me. MIL wanted every interaction to go through SIL. When I saw what was happening I nipped it in the bud straight away by refusing to engage. Since the coup failed, they have really hated my guts!

My MIL is now late 80's and the wind has gone out of her sails. She is no longer able to bully anyone. Again I have noticed that my SIL seems to think that she is now head elephant in the family, is on a power trip and talking down to people. Her power seems to come from the fact that her parents favour her over my DH and his other brother (although he lives in Australia so he is not really on the scene). She is like a spoilt child who thinks that she can do and say what she wants because PIL will always take her side, even if she is in the wrong. PIL would not speak to DH and I for ages if we upset her. This is why we do not rock the boat.

What I just don't get is why my SIL thinks she can position herself as the matriarch in the family? She is not married, doesn't have kids, doesn't speak to her cousins, hates me and my other SIL in Australia, my kids can't be bothered with her, and her partner is an idiot. I don't think PIL will be here for much longer as they are both unwell and late 80's.

It is funny because whenever we arrange to meet PIL and SIL, she has a massive makeover beforehand. MIL used to do this too up until a few years ago. It's like they are in competition with me. It is so tiring.

So, my post is really to ask for tips for dealing with my SIL moving forward. I'm just so tired of this ongoing saga. I have cut back the visits a lot, but they still leave me reeling. Honestly, I have that line in my head "will no one rid me of this turbulent priest". I just wish she would f'off. 😩It's like there is an imaginary pecking order and she desperately wants to be at the top of it, with MIL's backing.

AIBU to think that when my PIL are no longer around my SIL will suddenly find that her power battery no longer works and that she doesn't really have anything to be the matriarch of?

I just wish we could all get along nicely like I do with my other SILs and female relatives. No competition, just friendly and loving support.

She's said she doesn't want to alienate her PIL (or her DH doesn't). I wouldn't have anything to do with any of them, personally. Life is too short to put up with this kind of shit. But many posters choose to martyr themselves!

Your sil behaves like this because she was reared to think it was normal. You are right that she will run out of steam when her parents die. and luckily she doesn't have children that she reared in the same way/fucked up.

But you don't have to put up with being insulted, ignored or despised. No big drama just quiet quit. One time you'll have a prior commitment to lunch, another time you'll feel a little ill just before and won't show up etc etc. why go to meet people who don't like you and show you this? I doubt your dh needs the support. Just drop the rope.

I agree with this, I just don't understand it. Why would you set yourself up to spend time with toxic people? They're not the boss of you, there's no law which states you have to attend lunches or other social gatherings with people you don't like. It doesn't matter who they are or who they think they are... there's NO power there, they have no right to order you to attend anything or put up with their behaviours. You don't have to, so why are you choosing to? If your husband chooses to, let him. You're all adults with agency. Consider how much happier you'll be without them in your life!

I can't imagine why he sees his parents tbh.

Certainly no idea why Op doesn't leave him to it!

So you have tolerated this for decades because of your weak husband eho stands by and allows it?
Why would anything change.
Your poor children, exposed to such toxicity.
What a legacy.
Them watching their parents being insulted and humiliated.

Madness to have remained around it.

Yes her power will fade. Just go low contact in the meantime and concentrate on your relationship with your husband.

You are right in that she seriously has delusions of grandeur.

I think my PIL have outsourced everything to her, including looking after their money and POA. My DH is a little reserved in going head to head with any of them as I don’t think he wants to be cut off. They have form for saying they’ll change their will if someone doesn’t do as they’re told.

I’ve told my DH that he shouldn’t trust his sister not to manipulate his parents into handing over sums to her, but I think he is very naive. I don’t care what they do with it TBH. No sane person banks on inheritance. Also, I think both my PIL will end up in a care home within the next 3 years. If they do I’m sure she’ll have a hissy fit about her inheritance and hassle my DH and his brother to cough up for it.

I do think that since MIL is no longer able to keep up the toxic narcissist bully, her DD has taken over the role and doing it with relish.

@DecadesLongSaga

You think SiL's 'influence' will fade when your iL's are gone? Nope. She is the anointed Queen-Bee-to-be, anointed by the Queen Bee herself, who is now slowly abdicating the throne. When iL's are gone, she will get even worse. I really don't think you're going to change that because it's 'favorable' to SiL. She gets what she wants, why should she give that up?

All you can do is 'refuse to cooperate' as it sounds like you're doing. But if you really want to get her goat, laugh at her. If she issues a 'royal command', laugh and say "Oh SiL, you know I'm not going to do that/be there" and keep repeating it. If she talks nasty about other family, roll your eyes, sigh, and get up and say "I think I'll go for a 'walk in the woods'" (that's my family code for "I'm not listening to you blather") and just leave the room. Let them threaten to get the family to 'gang up on you'. Would the family really do that? Or would it just be lip service to The Royal Family whilst secretly telling you they're out of line. And who knows, you may start an actual revolution! And if they do truly gang up on you, well, you haven't really lost much, have you, because they wouldn't really be 'family' at all in the real sense of the word.

As far as your DH, he's going to have to manage his own relationship with her and his family. And you need to let him, and help him if he asks, so long as it doesn't impact you or your children. That is where you are allowed to draw a hard line. And stick to it.

Do you think you will detach / withdraw @DecadesLongSagaor just put up with it?

They have form for saying they’ll change their will if someone doesn’t do as they’re told.

They might leave it all to SIL anyway as they don't like you!

I would pitty your SIL. She's probably thinking she's ruling the roost now that your MIL is aging and this is the most important she has ever been in her life.

I think you're doing all you can do and you're right now - once the in-laws are gone she wont have anyone to validate her nonsense.

Until then I also suggest the grey rock method with her. I know it would of been nice if she would of done x y and z and you could of been more etc... but that will never be unless you agree to live by her rules and it does not sound like you want to.

She is going to be a complete nightmare when your in-laws eventually do pass. So be prepared for that.

You seem to like the drama of it all. A lot of people just wouldn't have bought into all this palava in the first place. Don't see her! They truly only have power over you if you allow it. You're saying after PILs pass you will start challenging her. What is the point of that, just disengage from it all now.

I understand why you keep contact with them and it’s likely SIL’s power will die off after PIL’s do.
its hard to keep the peace but I know you and DH has come so far time-wise there is little point upending the in-laws this late in the game.
Limit your engagements with them and see the meetings as necessary (until such time as after the funerals) but emotionally protect yourself in some way to get by. If they stop speaking to you, let it be. That behaviour is not worth the hassle, even if you’re putting up with it for now.

For God sake, just go NC. Why are you waiting for a death in the family? You didn't choose SIL, she just came as a wider package in the background and that's where she needs to stay. I have practically nothing to do with one SIL and I actually quite like her. If this side of the family is really that bad you opt out and stay out.

She’s afraid she’ll have no family without her parents. Effectively your husband will join your family. Her brother is in Australia. She has no children, no husband’s family. The only role she can see is as matriarch keeping her brothers family in her orbit.

It’s your husband that you need to think about- what relationship does he want with her? No one can make you socialise with her, or include her.

I think you’re already doing the best you can.
Grey rocking them, despite it being hard, I get that!
Warning your dh re inheritance and that no ne knows what their wills are.
And keeping contact to with other relatives WITHOUT THEM

I feel the last one is essential.
Youre right the big family gatherings are likely to stop once PIL die. They might even stop when one of them dies (whoever it is).
But it doesn’t mean that the family as a whole has disappeared. Carry on being in contact with the others!

Im not sure there’s anything else you can do.
Of course you can chose to have no contact with them at all. But it might be quite hard on your dh.
How does he feel about it all? Because staying inline out of fear you’re going to be cut off sounds an unhealthy reason to start with. But I also get that they are his parents.

Is there an inheritance issue here? Is your DH worried that PIL will leave everything to the awful SIL if you dont placate?

Just disengage, let your DH go to their meet ups. You go not have to participate in any of this. You don't have to listen to the nonsense. The microagressions add up and have impact. Ignore. I totally get you when you say you can't tolerate it anymore. It's like a switch is flipped around age 50, it's the 'off' switch. If you are not kind, nice, respectful and for women then it's a 'no'. I have only seen MIL and SIL once this year and she moved 5 mins away. You can do this. Just make sure you treat them with the kindness and respect they should be showing others.

You are very much speaking the way I did in my 30s except it was my father in law who was the domineering bully. I used to wonder how to best interact and if I did A would he do B and how could I make things least painful for us all. Now I'm in my 50s, I know that there is no happy way of interacting with people like this, and they are simply best avoided and ignored as much as possible.
Don't waste a second more of your life than you have to, interacting with them or thinking about them, because it's a misery inducing thankless task and they will never change.

Try this sentence
" fuck off everybody, cheerio!"

This.

I don't see what the issue is. If they're horrible to you just don't see them. Your DH can see them as much as he wants to, but you don't have to be there.
Presumably your children are old enough to make up their own minds as well.

She is like a spoilt child who thinks that she can do and say what she wants because PIL will always take her side, even if she is in the wrong. PIL would not speak to DH and I for ages if we upset her. This is why we do not rock the boat.

@DecadesLongSaga Life is too short for this shit. Start rocking that damn boat.
Stop meeting up with them quite so often.
Don't be quiet.
Screw the "inheritance" they've probably signed it all over to her anyway.
Enjoy you SIL - free life.
🍹

This sounds just like my sister. My mother was a matriarch and my sister thought she would control everyone's life and step into her shoes. I stopped speaking to her four years ago. Her son has now done the same.
She was nasty as a child and hasn't changed. We lost our younger brother but she couldn't even say good morning to me at his funeral. She's money obsessed, do you think that is what your SIL is banking on?

I think you're doing all you can do and you're right now - once the in-laws are gone she wont have anyone to validate her nonsense.

Similar with my family except it was my brother being the bully, with my mum backing him up, he was the golden child and between them could make life nasty. I kept him at arms length as much as I could, and once mum had died, the nonsense more or less stopped as he had no one validating him. He also knew I would cut him off in a heartbeat.

I kept him at arms length until 4yrs ago when he started being nasty about a relative’s family, when I fully cut him off.

Interestingly, in the last 6mths, he has started calling the relative that he cut off, she doesn’t understand why (but too nice to tell him where to go) - I have explained to her that he wants someone to validate him again and probably trying to drive a wedge between me and her.

Apparently he has emailed me too, but to an old email that I don’t read!

I am in full grey rock mode, happy to never see or contact him again. No loss to my life. These people only thrive if others play their silly games. As a poster up thread says They truly only have power over you if you allow it.

Oh and said brother tried his best to get mum to change her will, even threatening her. He didn’t succeed.

Stop engaging you plonker !

hope you don’t allow your kids around her she sounds toxic

leave well alone