AIBU to think my SIL's influence will fade without my in-laws?

[DecadesLongSaga]

Last week we went for an in-law lunch including my PIL, SIL and her partner. I have come away, as per usual, feeling insulted, ignored and despised and it has lingered for a few days. I am sick of it.

My MIL and SIL are in constant dramas with their extended family. There is always some falling out, someone crying over comments made to each other and petty feuds. They constantly bitch about the women in their family saying babies are ugly, people are stupid and got rubbish jobs, laugh at how someone has aged, and spin a small comment into something massive. The things they say about the women married into the family are just awful.

My MIL has a very cruel tongue, and has always been the matriarch. Her DC and DH are terrified of her. A few years ago she openly started encouraging her DD to take over her matriarch role and all of a sudden she started telling us all what to do, and being extra rude to me. MIL wanted every interaction to go through SIL. When I saw what was happening I nipped it in the bud straight away by refusing to engage. Since the coup failed, they have really hated my guts!

My MIL is now late 80's and the wind has gone out of her sails. She is no longer able to bully anyone. Again I have noticed that my SIL seems to think that she is now head elephant in the family, is on a power trip and talking down to people. Her power seems to come from the fact that her parents favour her over my DH and his other brother (although he lives in Australia so he is not really on the scene). She is like a spoilt child who thinks that she can do and say what she wants because PIL will always take her side, even if she is in the wrong. PIL would not speak to DH and I for ages if we upset her. This is why we do not rock the boat.

What I just don't get is why my SIL thinks she can position herself as the matriarch in the family? She is not married, doesn't have kids, doesn't speak to her cousins, hates me and my other SIL in Australia, my kids can't be bothered with her, and her partner is an idiot. I don't think PIL will be here for much longer as they are both unwell and late 80's.

It is funny because whenever we arrange to meet PIL and SIL, she has a massive makeover beforehand. MIL used to do this too up until a few years ago. It's like they are in competition with me. It is so tiring.

So, my post is really to ask for tips for dealing with my SIL moving forward. I'm just so tired of this ongoing saga. I have cut back the visits a lot, but they still leave me reeling. Honestly, I have that line in my head "will no one rid me of this turbulent priest". I just wish she would f'off. 😩It's like there is an imaginary pecking order and she desperately wants to be at the top of it, with MIL's backing.

AIBU to think that when my PIL are no longer around my SIL will suddenly find that her power battery no longer works and that she doesn't really have anything to be the matriarch of?

I just wish we could all get along nicely like I do with my other SILs and female relatives. No competition, just friendly and loving support.

I could have written your post, right down to the BIL in Australia.

SIL was always the golden child; DH’s role was to support her & MIL in their lives of indolence. Now MIL has gone, DH has completely disengaged with SIL - as indeed has her own son.

DH & I instigate nothing.

It will pass Op, in meantime, as others have suggested, just drop the rope. Volunteer nothing, live your own life.

A Matriach needs to be recognised as such to have any power.

Oh who cares if she is the elected spokesperson of a bunch of gimps. It just means that she’s the biggest gimp.

what’s the point in going to these meets?

She will only have power if other people allow her to. So unkind comments, ignore or call her out, summons or directions- no sorry can do that, expectations on time or involvement- same. If people ignore her she becomes small.

“PIL would not speak to DH and I for ages if we upset her. This is why we do not rock the boat.”

Let them!

Yeah, sounds like a reward!

why be prepared to put up with it now?

How exhausting. I hate that some people just accept these dramas as part of life, I've seen it with references to teenage girls at school "you know what girls are like, they're all little bitches to each other". Erm, no, my friends and I at school all liked each other and shared jokes and ideas and dreams and lifted each other up and we're still friends doing the same now.

I know the kind of women you mean, I know some in my community and amongst school mums, but they're not people I choose to spend time with so it must be hard when they're family. One woman was always involved in a drama or not speaking to someone or other. I had sympathy at first but then I realised that she was a massive stirrer, making misery and drama in everyone else's lives. I think it was an attention seeking thing.

I'd say to engage with them as little as possible. It sounds like you have plenty of other positive relationships in your life.

I'd also be really clear about when their behaviour is uncomfortable or bullying.

"I feel uncomfortable talking about (insert name) like that, she's always been lovely to me" or "this feels like quite a mean conversation".

Maybe the SIL needs it spelling out to her "I think your mum maybe pushed away some good people in her life by being pretty domineering, I'd be really sad to see you do that too" but I don't know, there's probably a better way!

In my life I try to kill it with kindness and re-direction. They start bitching "oh, I don't know her well enough to comment, did you see The Traitors last night?" or "hahaha, well we're all grown ups so I'm sure we can all make our decisions about that, do you want a cup of tea?"

Stop seeing them. If you DH wants to see them, that's up to him. They sound utterly toxic and your DH should have put a stop to this years ago.

I don't know why you are bothering with your MIL and FIL. She has lost her power due to advanced old age, but she has always been a horrible bitch to you. Cut her off as well as your pathetic SIL.

Am I the only one who thinks this matriarch thing is as pathetic as the patriarchy?
You're not animals in a herd. No one person should be in charge.
And being married/having children does not make one woman better than another.

You havent really spoke about your DH much and what he thinks. I'm guessing he just lets his family treat you like shit then eh.

Why are you even in the same room as them? FIL despises you? Why do you still see him. I presume that your DH wants to see them. If so, you should just stay at home or go out if he invites them to your house.

They are all pathetic bullies with no real power. If you challenged them, what could they do?

I thought that matriarchs usually had children and grandchildren that they would control. Your SIL is single so who is she controlling? Once your PILs die, she will be very isolated. Make sure that your DH doesn't feel that he needs to support her and invite her to your home.

Why on earth are you entertaining any of this nonsense??? So what if there's a falling out - you don't like any of them anyway! Stop seeing them and let your DH see his parents as and when he wants, but you don't need to lie down and let them wipe their feet on you. I'm both annoyed on your behalf and wishing you'd put an end to this abuse. She only has power if you give her power over you. Let them all go to hell. Life is very, very short.

I suggest you do two things. One is for you and DH to invest your time and energy into your relationship with Aussie BIL & his family (if he has one). Inject snippets and side comments to DH about things that have been said, people are planning, etc. That will make her paranoid and showcase her isolation.
Second, take a notebook. When she is imperious, oblivious or rude, write it down. She will absolutely see what you’re doing and that will also drive her crackers. When she asks, just say that you’ve been writing a novel. She wither inside at the thought of the rest of the world seeing her through your eyes. Maybe mention Penelope Keith in “To the Manor Born”, but with no class or elegance.

I'd start practicing that "get to f@ck" now. On your PILs and on your DH, if he is pressuring you to spend time with these people who have been so rude and hostile to you.

Otherwise, the spell will never be broken, and your DH will end up allowing himself to be bossed by his sister. Because she's alone, because she hasn't got anyone else. And because he is conditioned to obey.

Make sure it is your dance, not hers, and make sure he learns the steps right now.

Formatting and type edits

Any power that she has comes from the fact that you appear to care. About what they think of you and how they portray you in the family. If you can get to a position where you know it’s all nonsense and you don’t actually care, then they’ve got nothing to hold over you.

I wouldn’t visit people who treated me like that though. If your DH feels he needs to stay close for his elderly parents’ sake then he can get on with it, but you don’t need anything to do with them. Once your PIL have gone I expect you’ll have nothing to do with SIL anyway.

Incidentally, my DH wouldn’t tolerate anyone from his family insulting me even once, let alone over a long time. Another reason they say these things is because they know he won’t tell them where to go when they do. I’d be having long overdue words with him too!

I don't know why you see them at all? You don't have to. I would just tell your DH he can go to see them if he wants to. Take yourself out of the equation. Concentrate on spending time with people who are nice. Simple 🤷‍♀️

I’m sorry that they are treating you this way. I understand how this feels. Since my mil died we’ve realised how toxic my fil is. It took 2 years for his true personality to come out and he engineers awkward meet ups with lots of shouting and slagging off of anyone not present.

I ended up making a decision, one that was healthy for me and my children. We decided to stop giving him our power by not going anymore. I left it to my husband to go alone if he could. A year later he too decided not to attend anymore as these meet ups left him feeling angry as small snide digs were aimed at me and the children. We no longer see him and husband pops in once every 2 months for an hour to check on him.

Fil has fallen out with another son for the exact same reasons, who came to our home to tell us what he’s been saying about us (out of revenge). I replied that I didn’t care and didn’t want to know. He seemed shocked that I knew and wasn’t aware we’d fallen out! I explained that we never see him and missed his birthday parties because we don’t like him. But it’s not my style to scream and argue as my energy and peace of mind is precious to me. He seemed devastated that we didn’t care because he wasn’t able to do the same thing!

So don’t give them your power! Stop going to events and meals. Send your husband alone! If they ask where you are, he can reply at another event/meal! Eventually he will stop going and it will only be mil and sil left. That will be no fun for them as there is no one to slag off!!! Take back your power 🔥

You do not have to put up with it now either. Your kids will see the disrespect shown to your husband and you and that is a line that should never be crossed.

Once I was threatened with "we will get the whole family to not speak to you".

Sounds like a win to me!

I'd just stop going to the lunches. They sound horrible. Let your husband go on his own if he wants.

Im quite excited for you @DecadesLongSaga(user name is also very telling) - if you take even a crumb of action from the unanimous agreement on this thread - then you are in for a delicious and satisfying experience of LC/NC. No need to announce anything (even to your DH if you don’t want to right now) - just detach in your head, put in the distance, keep dignified and fill the gap from the toxic onslaught with anything that brings your peace and pleasure. Honestly it’s a wonderful place to be.

Another saying “just stop” if the only threat they’ve got is to stop the rest of the family speaking to you, why do you care if people you don’t enjoy spending time with don’t contact you?

You need to stop and consider your part in ensuring this fucked up dynamic has continued so long.

Try a device and conquer- be busy next big lunch meet up date. Then call MIL and suggest she and FIL come to you one night next week to make up for missing it. You don’t have to do big meet up with SIL as well, if they decline, you’ve offered. Suggest DH takes FIL out for a father son meet up. Essentially only do family on your terms. Not all of them, not you always the guest, be the host sometimes.

accept you don’t have the in laws you would like, stop going along with this nonsense.

Actually very common for larger families to have this sort of hierarchy thing. Especially Catholic families. It's quite practical on some levels, but your MIL and SIL sound awful.

What is this incessant desire to live in troupes? Why? Can't you live alone with you DH and family? Why even interact with them? Are you Italians in the early 1920s in Calabria? Why all this nonsense?