AIBU to wonder why women still accept unequal relationships?

[Tinnybinnylinny]

I have been an avid lurker and infrequent commenter…..

Its 2026, women have had the vote for over a
hundred years, access to education, we are about three generations in for women being able to earn professional salaries…their own business/ whatever it is. Yet - why are women still raising male children to treat their partners/wives like crap (not all men, and of course no one posts when it’s a happy life)?.

Why do women:

a. Accept it?;

b. raise the next generation to do the same (I appreciate these are inter- linked).

I see it on so many threads on here and in real life. Women that are the high earners - and yet do everything for the kids and the partners/ husbands….

The law/ employers etc can change/ have all the polices etc, but it doesn’t matter….

What am I missing?

I don’t think a lot men have the same drive and desire to have children that women do and give in to pressure to have kids there not bothered about

if there was a blunt conversation before kids about the expectation to give up work and a the childcare stuff I think a big chunk of if men would opt not to have kids and be happy with that
instead they go ahead and have kids that there not really bothered about for a quite life and have no intention of picking up what’s involved

Anyway one massive factor is that relationship inequality is basically down to internalised traditional gender roles. Gaining equality means actively unlearning them, for both men and women. But SO MANY women (and men obviously) are... stuck on them. Or they like the bits that benefit them so they accept the bits that don't.

Look at all the threads here about men being protectors and providers. Or every single thread about a man's earnings, or his stinginess, that I can't imagine anyone saying about a woman. Or even a lot of the threads about men's mental health - every time there's a situation where a man cries or reveals emotional vulnerability, there'll be posters saying it gives them the ick.

Essentially if those traditional gender filters are how you choose your partner then you'll probably get the full whack of traditional gender assumptions and end up with someone who expects you, the woman, to handle the entire domestic load while he goes out to his big job to provide for you. That would have been your choice.

Wow, so crying a whole family is “weak”?, Very victim blaming.

Are you a woman @Tinnybinnylinny ? If so re you single or in a relationship?

Im a woman and single, in part because I’ve realised that even my relationships with “good” men are unequal in the way you describe but having done lots of self reflection and therapy I understand because that is how I manifest caring, which is a choice. Ultimately most woman want the people they love to be happy, and their kids to have a good life, so they end up the bulk of caring/organising because the men they are with just don’t care bout this stuff as much, so what is the alternative?

Yes we need to raise our standards and our young men better, but no need to blame women for caring.

Over a thousand years of custom and societal structure building.
We are nowhere near equal yet- although equal salaries are possible it is unbelievably hard to achieve and still very rare. Men are beginning to treat women more fairly , but it is slow and will mirror the earnings and equality.
As women we still put women below men every day in our thinking and actions - it is is still almost automatic. It took thousands of years to build this inequality it will take more than a couple of generations nto get rid of it.
My own mother was at a parent teacher event and was asked what she would like to have done if she had the choice- had 6 sons she replied- I was standing right there, she thought nothing of it, refused to apologise because as far as she was concerned she had done nothing hurtful.

Personally speaking, although of course personal choice, I respect women far more who are financially contributing to their families through hard work over those who choose to rely permanently on their husband financially to fund their lifestyle.

@VoltaireMittyDream has hit the nail on the head. I see that scenario playing out time and time again.

I am seeing a movement towards more women and men speaking out on the subject as it’s becoming clear that women of this generation are feeling the squeeze and have clearly had enough.

At home, we talk openly about this societal norm that the mother is seen as the “default” parent and household project manager and what we can do to make sure our daughter doesn’t continue to believe this is her destiny and that my son doesn’t treat a potential future partner in the same way. However, this only came about because I was completely and utterly burnt out from my husband being one of the classic “Just tell me what to do and I’ll do it” types and I nearly had a breakdown. We’re putting strategies in place for everyone in the house to “notice” what needs doing rather than waiting to be told like a passive player in the family.

I think there needs to be explicit social discourse on the whole subject as it’s crippling so many families.

I mean have you read half of the posts on mumsnet? I despair at the positions women put themselves in.

Yes it’s men’s behaviour, but also so many women making poor choices.

Blame the burglar….., but it you don’t lock your doors it’s also on you.

Its on women to make sure they protect themselves.

Well apparently according to people on this thread it doesn’t matter how you are raised, you make a choice.

I also was very clear (not all men/women) there is a nature/nurture argument, in the event that a child grows up a certain way - as I understand there is a strong correlation of repeated behaviour.

Thank you, there was no misogynistic intention behind the post.

Having seen the reaction here and been berated by other women who have failed to understand the question and accused me of blaming women for men’s behaviour, no - I am asking why they accept it, thereby creating the perception for their children (of course this is a generalisation and will not apply in all cases) that such behaviour is acceptable.

Where did I blame women for caring? Caring is one thing, accepting bad behaviour is another.

simple answer, programming- this has such a long history and is so ingrained in everyone's behaviour it is very difficult to swim against the stream, sometimes.

I think this is really interesting, and may go to the fact that men may feel like they can’t in a work situation be open about wanting to get home for the kids bed/bathtime/ sports day etc (caveat not all men, it’s a generalisation).

First of all the definition of an "equal relationship" is not some universal standard. Equality doesn't mean taking turns cleaning the bathroom.

Haven’t read the whole thread

For women with children - they don’t split because it would upset the children. And because if you’re exhausted from doing 90% of everything, losing that 10% feels impossible even if you know it’s unfair.

For women without children- I don’t know why they don’t split from useless partners but I would imagine a lot of it is low self esteem (often created or increased by the partner) and “sunk costs” especially if they want kids and feel time is not available to find another partner. Of course low self esteem and sunk costs also applies to women with children.

This, this is the type of behaviour that I am asking why women accept it? Apparently it’s victim playing, women have no agency in this, they have no choice.

This is yet turning into another men bashing thread. Women do no wrong, all the suffering in the world is caused by men. Women are never at fault, men are solely responsible for women's demise. No option for different perspectives, women see everything very clearly whilst men are in denial. The only acceptable men in society are those who fully agree that their sex is shit and rally to the thought that women are right and be heard whilst men should only speak to agree with them.

I'm so thankful that my world is one where men and women live in harmony most of the time, hear eachother out and consider each others perspectives. Hence the harmony!

I didn’t say it was and I think you may be being pedantic. For example my husband cleans more than me, I sort more paperwork, he sorts out stuff like trademan, I will sort holidays.

Equal as in an equal load of the work in sharing a life….and yes at times one may do more than another, that is life itself, swings and roundabouts.

Where is this utopia you speak of?

But seriously, I have that with my husband. I was very clear in the original post it’s not all men, but women, I mean think of the threads on it here, are accepting of a lot of bad behaviour from men (not all men and not all women).

Yes, both men and women are under societal pressure to perform traditional gender roles and in many industries men will absolutely feel this. Pushing back on traditional gender roles is active, constant, hard work. It's setting boundaries with society - your family, your job. It's finding a social circle where traditional gender roles are not the default. (It's incredible to me how most MNers only socialise with their only sex.) And you have to be all in, because all aspects of traditional gender roles are connected to the other ones. Cherrypicking the ones in your favour doesn't work.

If you filter your dates for men who are invested in earning a lot and providing for you then you shouldn't be surprised if that remains their priority once kids come along.

Yes, and many men accept bad behaviour from women. That's life. I'm in a profession that allows me to see both sides, and yes, there is definitely manipulative behaviour on both sides.

Things are only going to get worse if all we do as a society is continue to point the finger at the 'other side' and allocate everything wrong on them whilst assuming we are in the right about everything. This is the best way to build defensiveness and resentment.

What we need to do is listen to each other and better under. The regular threads like this one is totally counter productive as it encourages the former and shows no interest in the latter.

I 100% agree with you op. You are getting a lot of defensive anger from posters because you’ve touched a nerve. Lots of the unhappiness and dysfunction I read on MN is because of shit men, yes, but also because women willingly stay and put up with it (not talking about abuse here, just poor low effort behaviour).

Instead of walking away or expecting better, they mummy and enable crap men. They allow male uselessness because their goal is to be perfect stepford wives instead of partners. Probably because they’ve grown up seeing their mothers do the same.

It’s not victim blaming because these are not forced marriages or arranged marriages. Women have full autonomy and free will. They have a choice to walk away from inadequate men in the early days of dating - I know I did in my 20s. And I was neither very attractive or particularly emotionally intelligent back then so it’s not like I had my pick, but I was damn well sure I wasn’t going to settle for a dud. Even if it meant I was single forever.

Thankfully there is evidence that younger women are being more discerning. But men don’t seem to change. The world becomes more misogynistic and I fear that more women with low self esteem will feel the need to meet male expectations instead of being a fully self actualised person in their own right.

People's perception of what qualified as "work" and "leisure" varies: I don't think holiday planning is work.

they just don’t all do this though. In order to not accept this trap I need to actively ignore the phone calls from school or childcare and check in with dh after waiting enough time for them to have tried him- ‘hi dh, missed a call from school, is everything all right?’ It’s work in itself to not accept it! It’s work im largely prepared to do, but it’s work.

Once you're in a relationship with a lazy partner and have children with them, it's very difficult to just walk away. Also, you can't make that person split household chores 50/50. No-one can make another human being do things they don't want to do. Trust me, I spent almost a decade with a man who refused point blank to help me with the housework and children. I tried everything from having a conversation about it to arguing and crying. I also said that one day, if his behaviour continued, I would leave him. He just didn't care. So I left him. It was the single most difficult thing I ever had to do. I now lead a very peaceful life but everything is on me financially and emotionally. He still does nothing. I wouldn't change my decision but it hasn't been easy. I can see why women choose to stay. I can also see why women choose to leave. Ultimately, the man I was with was never going to change. He was very spoiled as a child and definitely saw our marriage as a continuation of that. He labelled all household chores as 'women's work.' I'm not saying that mothers are to blame for how their sons have turned out. All I can speak of is my own experience of living with a man whose mother did everything for him. He couldn't adapt to being a responsible and motivated adult, father and husband.