Not let dd2 join dd1’s hobby

[freddierose]

Two DD’s 13 months apart, DD1 (9) and DD2 (8).

They are both lovely girls who normally get on really well. Dd2 has always been more advanced than dd1 (walked, talked, potty trained first etc) with this trend continuing.

It’s never been a concern as DD1 was never behind in general, Dd2 just seems preform slightly above at most things.

About a month ago dd1 came to me in tears saying dd2 is better than her at everything and that she hates her. Since then she’s been really down on herself and been unkind to dd2. We’ve been trying to strengthen dd1’s confidence and focus on her own hobbies and friendships separate to dd2 who as far as we’ve witnessed hasn’t actually done or said anything wrong.

DD1 has done a certain hobby since she was 3 which she loves and is quite good at. Dd2 already does lots of activities but has now said she wants to join this one, she watched a film with it in and is really excited about it. DD1 is furious and upset.

I think it would really negatively impact dd1 to have dd2 join her hobby as it’s likely dd2 would quickly overtake her at it so we should say sorry you already do enough activities and that is your sisters one. DH thinks that’s ridiculous and would be enabling dd1’s jealousy and punishing dd2 for nothing so dd2 should be able to join

AIBU to not want to let dd2 join?

I don't think I'd let one of my dc dictate what hobbies the other could do, if they quit then they are only ruining their own fun. I wouldn't be held to ransom by a tantrum!

She’s excited at trying this new hobby, and will be very aware that the reason why she is not allowed to do it despite her sister being allowed, is because her sister is jealous and is starting to become so unkind and nasty to her that their parents are deciding to pander to her emotions for an easy life.

This POV sounds reasonable on the surface, but it discounts - or ignores - the extent to which DD2 may also be jealous & competitive. Sibling rivalry can happen in this way. The elder child (DD1) has done nothing but been born first, but DD2 could well be jealous of that.

Two DC so close together are always going to have complex feelings about this. And at their ages, it'll be hard for them to articulate their feelings or think them through.

@freddierose your DD1 has already come to you in distress about her feelings. And her feelings about herself and her sister's talents may be complicated by her understanding that such feelings of envy of her little sister are wrong. It's a lot for a 9 yo to carry and try to process - that her feelings are strong, but also "bad" (ie jealousy etc). Your DH's attitude will only make it worse.

DD1 will be in for a hard time in the world when she realises others are sometimes better at things than you are, and you can't have them quit because you're hurt by it.

But those people won't be a family member as close to her as her sister is, and she'll be a bit older & more able to cope when she's out in the world independently. At the moment, she may feel as though she's in a kind of nuclear family pressure cooker.

Well, DD2 hasn't even started it yet so she can't quit what she hasn't started. I agree that we all need to learn that we cannot be the best at everything but it's very different when this awareness comes from outside the family. DD2 has been better at everything so far so DD1 has had a lifetime of realising this. Surely she is allowed to have one thing in which she can shine. There is a time for building resilience and a time when you are allowed have your place in the limelight.

The OP has said it's ice skating.

As others have pointed out, it's certainly not a tantrum and it's not jealousy either. Itself-esteem and it runs deep.

Let DD2 start the hobby if it is a life skill that she needs to learn, like swimming or skiing or riding.
If the hobby is not crucial to one's earning capacity or safety etc then allow DD1 her personal space..

Is there a chance that DD1 will always be wonderful at the hobby and could it be a way for her to shine by instructing DD2 and helping her little sister? Only you know whether the personality of DD2 is aiming to out perform her sister or to enjoy the hobby for the activity itself.

Start helping your girls to be proud of each other. Take DD2 to see and applaud her big sister. Praise your girls when they are kind to each other. Take them on sister film nights, and baking days. Shop together and offer support. Concentrate on the non competitive activities.

My 8 yr old son got obsessed with gymnastics and has gone since he was 3, he's always progressed fine and is very good at the 'mens' style parts like bars, rings, can flip on a trpoline etc. my 5 yr old daughter inherited my hyper mobility which has made her amazing at the very impressive skills like cartwheels and contortions which my son finds very difficult. So all the stretching my son's pends time doing comes really naturally to his little sister. She's progressed through the stages to the point they are now in the same class. I exoected' him to be upset she surpassed him in skills he worked so hard at but took months to manage, like bridge. Somehow though he's just absolutely delighted she's in his class with him.

I say this because it sounds like your awareness of your younger child doing better might also be an issue and maybe you'd need to find a way to work on their relationship to each other and reducing competitiveness? Get them in each other's corner?

I wonder if the 3 year age difference, and being the opposite sex, makes it easier for your DC, @Velumental ?

With 2 girls, so close in age they could almost be contemporaries, it must be difficult for DD1. Constant comparison - not from her parents (I hope), but from others outside the family - teachers, family friends etc.

Then work on the outside reactions and eldest seeing her positives.

I'm 1 of 5 and there was so much rivalry especially between my middle sisters a year apart. However my mum was really good at seeing us as individuals. I'd say I was the quietest but most academic. But then this was in the days before paid extra curricular activities.

If I'd gone to my mum and said I was upset my sister was going to do a sport with me she'd laugh and say what did I want her to do? Cut off her feet?

I'd be inclined to lean into it, take them both to lessons, then also take the ice skating together just for fun days out. My kids do gymnastics and love to tumble so I take them to the trampoline park together and they both practice as well as play. They spend time together. I praise their efforts, we get a burger, we listen to loud music in the car.

I dunno, you can't make everyone else worse at something or your less able child better at it. You can love and support them and ensure they get positives from it.

And I was often the less good at things I did with siblings, utterly hopeless at sports, not at all good at social activities and group activities. Loved academic things, especially the library. With hindsight my mum was so brilliant at just having a neutral reaction to these things

Also at 8 and 9 there's no real indication who will do best longer term. It just doesn't sit well with me to not let a child do something because they might excel beyond their siblings level

So she knows DD1 does a sport…but it’s only after she watches a film about said sport (presumably ice princess or something else) where the sport was shown at a good level that’s she’s interested? She had no interest until she watched a film - and quite frankly that’s not ‘real’ interest.

YANBU. It’s not just about DD2 but also DD1s confidence and if their relationship is already struggling because of how DD1 feels then allowing DD2 to do this sport will just increase resentment. Honestly, it doesn’t even need to be phrased as ‘no cos DD1 does it.’ Just say that DD2 already does lots of things and there’s just not enough time in the day and that its important for them to do things independently.

I honestly think you're overthinking this and that is the thing that's going to get in the way of everyone's relationship. I also wonder if your reaction to your dd1s question in the first place has somehow fuelled this? How did you respond? Did you somehow feed into the idea that dd2 is more successful? Not allowing her to take part Incase she is better at it also feeds into that.

Your dd1s may be having a crisis of self esteem but it's not her sister's fault and it's unlikely its just about that and probably more about hormones, age, relationships at school. Can you work on dd1s self esteem by spending more time together? By taking them ice skating together an getting dd1s to show dd2 everything she can do? Tell her she's signed up for too many classes cost wise but her sister can show her some skills or tell her there's a waiting list and she can start in a year if still interested. Maybe teaching her would be good for dd1.

By preventing her sister from doing something in order to preserve DD1’s self esteem all you’ll be doing Op is confirming to DD1 that she isn’t good enough because your confirming the only way she can succeed is in a sanitised environment. It completely taints any success from then on. DD1 isn’t going to forget that DD2 wanted to do it and could have been better than her.

Putting barriers in place to make sure DD2 does genuinely want to do it and isn’t picking it up on a whim only to drop it again (you already do lots of things so you need to stop one to start this) is one thing. Stopping her entirely because her sister doesn’t want her to do it is another entirely.

You don’t raise strong, independent women by teaching girls the way to win is by keeping others, especially those who have done nothing at all wrong, down and stopping them from even trying. It’s entirely the wrong message. If DD1 skates to compete, she needs to learn that she can’t control competition and sometimes she’s going to lose and it’s going to hurt. If she skates for the love of skating, she needs to learn it doesn’t matter who is “better”, what matters is the joy it brings her being on the ice, which should have nothing to do with her sister. If she only enjoys it because she’s better than her sister then her motivation is completely wrong and it shouldn’t be encouraged.

As hard as it will be for her, it isn’t DD2’s responsibility to dim herself just because DD1 is struggling to shine.

It is very hard for people who have not grown up in these circumstances to actually understand how these siblings feel. Sometimes you have to be seen as unfair to protect both children.
I was DD1 in this situation. 18 months between me and my sister. She was always considered the clever one, the prettier one, the more popular one, the one with more friends etc. She wasn't all those things but relatives, teachers etc. would often say things like 'Joan is so good at tennis so it is odd that you aren't'.
My sister was good at everything...always chosen for the lead in the school play, always on the netball team, always with the popular children. I didn't excel at many things and the things I was good at, and enjoyed, she was always better.
My parents would just tell me not to be jealous or to try harder myself.
Looking back I feel my childhood was marred by this and I am still insecure because of it.
My sister and I are really good friends now because as an adult I realised it wasn't her fault that other people made it an issue. We don't do the same things or move in the same circles but do have a great relationship.
Find a way for DD1 to keep her hobby away from DD2.

I just can't believe that DD2 outshines DD1 on everything . You need to concentrate on what DD1 can do, not what she can’t do.

Both your girls have strength and weaknesses. So maybe DD2 is more sporty, learns more easily and therefore it's looking like she outperforms DD1.
You need to build DD1 confidence & self-esteem, but not on the cost of your DD2's enjoyment and development.

I'd let her do a couple of tester sessions, say after the summer holidays. BUT then DD2 would have to decide if it's something she wants to do for the next 18 months by dropping one of the other activities she is doing.
I would also try and encourage DD1 to branch out into other hobbies and activities that she can do and be good at.

Sounds like dd2 has quite a few established hobbies so maybe approach it by telling her she has enough hobbies for the moment. Let dd1 become established in the hobby, then revisit if dd2 wants to join later and is willing to drop a hobby for it.

I’d say to dd2no because they both do enough activities and it’s good for them both to have somethings separate

Op treating everyone the same is sometimes the most unfair thing you can do. I’d consider whether you leave it for a year, see if they both continue with their hobbies. Come back to it then.

Being competitive is natural, the second child being higher functioning is also very common, but you should not encourage DD2 to do the same things as DD1, she should definitely find something else- it is a clear bid to overtake and should be denied.
This is a common feature of sibling rivalry, but you need to get ahead of it- yes you need to be supportive of DD2- but there are thousands of hobbies to choose from why does it have to be this particular one.
Should the hobby be a class like ballet- let DD2 do it but at a different class, so direct comparisons are impossible.

If it’s ice skating does it have to be the same kind? Could one do speed skating and the other figure skating or ice hockey?

My DDs are in a similar position. My youngest is a natural athlete and has never yet found school challenging. She out performs her elder sister if they are doing the same thing. For the most part, luckily, they have ended up with different interests. But I have been careful also to encourage that and not encourage cross over in hobbies. At least not since they've been about 10. One does lots of sport, the other does dance and music. I have also not encouraged her to pick the same GCSE’s. I would not have said no if she had truly wanted to but thankfully she didn’t.
DD2 gets constant validation from us and school about how good she is at stuff. It was important to me that DD1 had her things that only she excels in. Her younger sister is always going to have an easier time of it (unless something drastic and unexpected happens) I want them both to be able to be proud of each other without comparing.

My DC are like this.
DC1 is a very good classical guitarist. He is not that sporty and his strengths are more academic than recreational.
DC2 is annoyingly competent at anything she l plays piano and wanted to try a second instrument. She mentioned guitar. I told her anything but guitar. She doesn’t play guitar. Turns out she’s an annoyingly good drummer too, but at lease she’s not directly comparable to DC1.

If dd1 has been doing a hobby since she was 3, so for 6 years….

how long do you think she needs to become “established” in that hobby?

Could she do a different version of the activity? For example, if DD1 is doing artistic gymnastics, could DD2 do acro, cheerleading, or tumbling?