Not let dd2 join dd1’s hobby

[freddierose]

Two DD’s 13 months apart, DD1 (9) and DD2 (8).

They are both lovely girls who normally get on really well. Dd2 has always been more advanced than dd1 (walked, talked, potty trained first etc) with this trend continuing.

It’s never been a concern as DD1 was never behind in general, Dd2 just seems preform slightly above at most things.

About a month ago dd1 came to me in tears saying dd2 is better than her at everything and that she hates her. Since then she’s been really down on herself and been unkind to dd2. We’ve been trying to strengthen dd1’s confidence and focus on her own hobbies and friendships separate to dd2 who as far as we’ve witnessed hasn’t actually done or said anything wrong.

DD1 has done a certain hobby since she was 3 which she loves and is quite good at. Dd2 already does lots of activities but has now said she wants to join this one, she watched a film with it in and is really excited about it. DD1 is furious and upset.

I think it would really negatively impact dd1 to have dd2 join her hobby as it’s likely dd2 would quickly overtake her at it so we should say sorry you already do enough activities and that is your sisters one. DH thinks that’s ridiculous and would be enabling dd1’s jealousy and punishing dd2 for nothing so dd2 should be able to join

AIBU to not want to let dd2 join?

*Sigh. Indeed I read your posts thoroughly.

You actually said this:
I wish I had been given the opportunity to have just one thing of my own with kids my own age without my sister. I think that if this had been allowed, we might well not resent each other as adults. Let your oldest child have one thing to themselves. Explain to your youngest child that it is fine and normal for her sister to want to do one thing by herself. And if the youngest one is desperate to do ice skating - as in genuinely desperate, and not just to spite the older one - then help the older one to find something else that she can do by herself.

I don’t agree that DD2 needs to be “desperate” to ice skate to be allowed to do it - it’s a popular mainstream sport. Nor am I convinced of your claim that if you’d been allowed macrame to yourself, the relationship with your sister would have been fundamentally different. Fault lines between siblings tend to be complex.

I agree. The focus should not be on who is better, faster etc but on how much you love it and what you get out of it. The game is valuable for its own sake,not who wins.

DD2 can just do ice skating for fun with her friends surely? She’s doesn’t need to do it as a proper sport.
I would absolutely keep the DDs in separate sports. Especially as this is just on a whim she saw a film and thought she’d give it ago. Happy people can be happy for other people. DD1 is not happy at the moment and so can’t accept this.
I know siblings this close in age and they don’t talk at all now because of comparison of one sibling always being better than the other. It’s very sad as they live close by.
Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.

Yes I said that. I also said what I posted (again) above. And I have acknowledged, repeatedly, that OP shouldn't prevent her DD2 doing ice skating - or indeed anything. But that the impact on her DD1 should be anticipated and managed.

I do wonder why you seem unable to acknowledge that preventing siblings from doing activities alone if that is what they ask for may be damaging. Of course my relationship with my sister would have been different if I could think of one example where my needs were acknowledged and prioritised. I doubt we would be best friends, but I would not resent her so much. There are plenty of other people on this thread who describe similar experiences. Were all of our family dynamics destroyed JUST because we couldn't do "macrame" by ourselves? Of course not - but it's clearly what we all remember as the root of the problem.

If you’d read my posts you’d see that I acknowledged it would be good for DD1 to have something to herself, but it would need to be more niche than a mainstream sport. Resentment is possible on either side and needs should be balanced.

I think if you felt your needs had been more acknowledged by your parents then the macrame issue would seem less key. Equally, even if they had bent over backwards to accommodate both, by the sound of it your sister was dealt an easier hand, and that may have caused resentment whatever your parents did.

I don't think it's unfair to DD2, who has other hobbies and plenty of other successes, to keep her out of the one hobby that DD1 has and finds rewarding. Posters scaremongering about the future are getting way ahead of themselves. Sometimes it's best for the good of one child to say no to something another child wants.

I think you’re making the right decision with not allowing your DD2 to do the ice skating. Your DD1 will appreciate the space and your DD2 will understand that it’s good to do separate things and she can do other things.

My younger sister was very competitive and tbh everytime she joined the hobbies I was doing, her competitiveness sucked the fun out of it and it was clear that something I was having fun with suddenly became something that people compared us against.

Protect DD1 here and tell DD2 that it’s okay to do things separately and to focus on the things she is doing. She will understand.

But also - your DD1 needs to stop being mean to her sister about this sort of thing.

I don't think she should do it, we say no to hobbies for loads of reasons, they can't do everything (money, time, schedules etc). I think even though my kids are not really in competition in the same way (different genders and bigger age gap) I still let them have their own "thing". I just think it's good for them to have a space and people just for them that everyone in the family rallies and cheers for them at. It doesn't really matter whether either of them would/wouldn't be good at it - its about them having time away from the family, where they go on their own and have their own thing to talk about - that in itself brings confidence.

I'd be tempted just to say she has a lot of hobbies already. Especially if she already has a similar sport that takes up time and money. You can't do everything and they're only young, if she is still interested in a year or two you can reconsider but it sounds like a bit of a fad anyway. With any hobby (especially expensive ones) I make them wait a little while to check they're genuinely interested anyway. Its not exactly clipping her wings or hiding her light, it's just not knowingly doing something that upsets dd1 based on a fairly vague "want", occasionally it's not the time or moment to have something you want, it's OK to wait and focus on what she is doing already. That's also a good life lesson too, you can't just jump around from hobby to hobby as they're expensive, there's kit to buy, and it's not something it sounds like she has a massive passion for if she's seen her sister go for 5 years and not mentioned until seeing a film.

It’s a hard one however I think having too many sports overall on top of school, friends, spending time with family, it’s a lot for children to carry. I think if your DD2 wants to try, have her go out there with a few public sessions and see if she likes it and decide from there.

May be she wouldn’t be as good as DD1 because to learn technique for several years on one sport would mean your DD1 should be very far ahead. I would not straight away assume DD2 will outshine DD1.

Is there any interest in playing a musical instrument or other hobbies outside of the sporting arena?

I think there is a level to which it's impossible to stop one sibling sometimes outshining the other, for example on things like GCSEs in the future. I'm not sure I'd stop DD2 from joining, but agree it's important to build up DD1's self esteem. Maybe one thing to consider is helping the older girl understand that it's not zero sum- often the younger sibling learns faster because they have an older sibling to learn from and watch. Sometimes it's also because the younger sibling really looks up to the older and wants to be able to join in and play with them. If it's an activity like dance or team sport, she'll now have someone to practice with. Is there a way you can help them start to see these things as collaboration rather than competition?

Also praise effort rather than output- there's a famous thing where if you tell a kid they are clever, they will try less challenges that might change that perception. If you praise effort, they'll keep trying at things that interest them. And bring in role models that reinforce how important trying is- the athlete Sarah Storey once said she was rubbish at her activities in school and couldn't keep up with other kids, and her teachers just told her to focus on beating her own record rather than worry. She did, and then did it again and again, eventually overtaking the others too, and now she's a record breaking winner.

I have to say, I’ve tried the praising efforts over results with my dcs.
Theyre now young adults
I can’t say it made a huge difference. Not when they are being rewarded to get good results - like they get a trophy if they came 1st etc… At school, theyre at the top table etc….

Dc1 is now 25yo and he is just starting to see how enjoying a hobby/sport is actually more important than winning. And how this is the reason why people carry on with that hobby as adults.
But when they were both younger, they both used to look at me like if I was stupid/crazy for saying it’s the effort/enjoyment that matters. Like I didn’t understand anything about the world around me 😁😁

Yes, my parents praised effort.

All it made me feel was

1. They didn't think I was very good so they had to praise that because there was nothing else to say.
2. They didn't expect me to do well ie weren't disappointed
3. That I'd tried hard and still not achieved meant I was really bad at it because clearly those who achieved hadn't tried as hard as me had still done better without trying.

I don't think it's as good on children's self esteem as people like to think.

I know what you mean about them looking at you like you haven't a clue!

We praise effort and achievement but try and focus on how trying hard and doing their best makes them feel (because we read that was how to encourage internal motivation). What seems to resonate the most is talking about how trying your hardest is the way to be the best you can be and there's no point doing stuff half heartedly. They are getting it a bit at 17/18, though hugely stressed about the transition to the adult world.

I think you are right to say no. Good on you can

Is the activity your daughter is doing a secret or something, just wondering why you’re not saying what it is?

The OP does say what is if you go through her posts, though.

Could you suggest she would have to give up another one of her classes to do it (time and money is not infinite)? Somehow discouraging her unless she is already willing to do that. Or that there are no places currently and a waiting list?