AIBU to think RSE lessons should be separated by sex not gender identity?

[Ljcrow]

My daughter's in Year 4 and had her first proper RSE lesson this week, covering puberty: body changes, periods etc. Girls and boys were separated apart from one boy who wears his hair long, dresses in what most people would view as "girls' clothes" and who likes to be referred to by female pronouns.
Besides the blatant ridiculousness of it- the fact that this child is never going to go through female puberty, I'm uncomfortable with the fact that girls are already being given the message that anyone can self identify into girlhood/womanhood and I worry about the precedent that this sets.
What complicates matters is that my child is really good friends with this boy and I'm friendly with his parents, although not super close, not enough to feel comfortable broaching the subject with them.
I've no problem with them being friends, my worry is that the school is reinforcing a potentially dangerous falsehood: that anyone who says they are the opposite sex, is.
Myself and my husband have always talked to our daughter about how there's more to being a girl than having long hair and liking pink or unicorns and how people can dress how they want and like whatever they like, but somebody's biological sex doesn't change.
As long as we're consistently giving this message is that enough or do I raise my concerns with the school?
Am I being unreasonable to be concerned about this?

Nothing will "happen" but as this was supposedly a girls only lesson, the children were being taught what should (unless there's a medical issue) happen to them. Female puberty will not happen to this child, so unless the teacher said "This is what happens to girls, but not you Doris" then the poor kid is going to think it applies to him.

Boys absolutely need to learn about female puberty, bodies, etc. But it doesn't sound like that's what this lesson was.

I doubt the OP is suggesting boys shouldnt hear about female puberty.

Simply that there are details and questions that each sex will talk through that they will be more comfortable doing in a single sex class.

That doesn't mean there could also be classes that they all attend together

If there are children with complex DSDs that will be discussed with the teacher presumably and the right course of action determined.

There doesn't seem to be any reason to assume this boy has a DSD

Surely its even more important that a child might have an "intersex" condition learns what to expect during puberty for the sex they think he is. Because if the expected puberty doesn't happen then they would need to take him to the doctors to see why.

I'm not sure how he wouldn't have been diagnosed at birth, but then was at some point between infant school (OP says he was a boy then) and juniors. How would you know there was something "wrong" when they are that young?

My son is in a very large south London primary with 3 form entry. He’s in year 5. Everyone is together to learn about these subjects. They don’t divide the children.
Me and my son had a very detailed chat about how crazy it is that women don’t know when their period will start (ie we know roughly but not to the minute).
don’t understand why they’re dividing genders at all

How old is a year 4 child? How will this little boy feel when he never gets a period? Doesn’t develop female secondary sex characteristics? How will that impact his mental health and development? Why would parents/school be so cruel as to make him believe these sex-segregated lessons are relevant to him because he’s allowed in them? This sounds like a case where his parents need to lovingly teach him the reality of the path they are putting him on, the puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, infertility, potential future medical procedures and their associated complications and the fact he can’t actually change sex. My heart goes out to him.

It’s not insane to say that plenty of girls won’t get periods. they won’t get a ‘normal’ puberty for many reasons. It’s not insane to acknowledge there are people who fall outside of what is ‘the norm’ for their biological sex. and whilst biological males
won’t get periods then who exactly does it hurt for them to be aware of periods and how they work? 2 of my sisters have turner’s syndrome and never had periods, should they have been excluded from PSE on that basis?
The problem isn’t including this child, it’s splitting them up in the first place.

What? Nothing! I think boys should be taught about female puberty and vice versa, but I think if you're segregating in order to make girls & boys feel more comfortable and more confident to ask questions then segregate by biological sex not gender identity.

I feel like I made all that pretty clear in my opening post to be honest.

What? Seriously? As the parent of a boy and a girl, you seriously want my boy to know nothing about periods? Come on love - you can’t mean that!

If girls don't get periods, what should they do?

Yes, that's right. Seek medical help. Because they should be getting periods and the doctors need to figure out what the problem is.

Of boys don't get periods, what should they do?

Yes that's right. Absolutely nothing. Because that is not what boys experience in puberty.

Whose saying he should t know anything about it?

Of course he should be educated about it. But that doesn't mean it's not valuable for girls to have their own time to discuss without boys present.

That's not the point though is it. The point is if you're segregating for whatever reason, why are you segregating by gender identity not biological sex, when the topics being discussed are what happens to biological males & females as they develop and go through puberty.

I feel like people are being wilfully ignorant and purposely missing the point at this stage.

@Ljcrow

School should not have done this. In fact, I think it could be unlawful.

They need to have a good reason to teach boys and girls separately. Once that good reason has been established then they can’t just let one boy in with the girls. And they must ensure that both sexes get an equivalent experience as otherwise it would be unlawful sex discrimination.

Please do complaint about this. Head over to the Feminisam board if you want support with writing in.

You are, of course, exactly right OP.

i said as much as we cross posted.

There are some moronic posts on this thread.

What?! This is abject nonsense! Little 8 and 9 year olds are already wrapping their heads around a lot, let alone baffling them with a load of add-on crap!

Thank you. I'm fairly nervous about the prospect of complaining given he's my daughter's friend and I'm friendly with his parents 😬 But it is niggling at me.

Girls need to know it is biologically normal to get periods so they know something is 'wrong' if they don't and so they go to their GP. Therefore it can't be taught you might get periods or you might not because we are all different!

No one should find out that it’s you who complains, that would be a massive breach on the part of the school and cause for investigation of who is disclosing confidential info.

School need to understand they have gone wrong here.

I am now even wondering what else they let this boy do.

Hang on a minute - im disagreeing with the pp who said boys shouldn’t be in the lessons at all. My son deserves to learn about periods. I personally find it odd they’re separating the class, fair enough 10 mins at the end for gender specific questions.

and no, in my opinion a long haired boy isn’t a girl any way round you cut it.

Yeah that’s not how it works though. I enquired at the school office whether a male relation of a staff member who was often on the school site was DBS vetted - that male, his wife and her mother who all worked at the school blanked me for a full year.

Yep, having worked in schools previously myself I'm not fully confident in their willingness/ability to keep things confidential either.

Surprised at the number of obtuse posters on here..I don't think anyone has said, or thinks, that boys should not be taught about periods, but as a teacher of 30 years, it is absolutely right that each sex should have some time with the teacher delivering this that is single sex. Regardless of how we adults may feel, young girls will, on the whole, be less likely to speak up, ask questions, share an experience if boys are present.
As for intersex, that community has repeatedly and loudly asked NOT to be dragged into the trans conversation and used as a gotcha. Any child with a DSD will be unique in their own way and have an individual, appropriate approach. Their very minority presence does not justify every female child being deprived of the opportunity to have a safe space to discuss female biology.

When I was in primary school (late 90's/early 2000's) the boys did not learn about periods at all, so now that my son is in primary school all children learning everything together seemed like progress to me. I do take the point that some girls might want to discuss without boys there though, hadn't thought of that.
I remember very clearly having to watch a video about erections in year 6, but the boys were not even shown so much as a sanitary towel.

Oh they're not obtuse. It’s a deliberate reframing of reasonable concerns to try and make an unreasonable fabrication appear to be our issue.

At least people have stopped accusing me of making the entire thing up now 🙃