AIBU to think RSE lessons should be separated by sex not gender identity?

[Ljcrow]

My daughter's in Year 4 and had her first proper RSE lesson this week, covering puberty: body changes, periods etc. Girls and boys were separated apart from one boy who wears his hair long, dresses in what most people would view as "girls' clothes" and who likes to be referred to by female pronouns.
Besides the blatant ridiculousness of it- the fact that this child is never going to go through female puberty, I'm uncomfortable with the fact that girls are already being given the message that anyone can self identify into girlhood/womanhood and I worry about the precedent that this sets.
What complicates matters is that my child is really good friends with this boy and I'm friendly with his parents, although not super close, not enough to feel comfortable broaching the subject with them.
I've no problem with them being friends, my worry is that the school is reinforcing a potentially dangerous falsehood: that anyone who says they are the opposite sex, is.
Myself and my husband have always talked to our daughter about how there's more to being a girl than having long hair and liking pink or unicorns and how people can dress how they want and like whatever they like, but somebody's biological sex doesn't change.
As long as we're consistently giving this message is that enough or do I raise my concerns with the school?
Am I being unreasonable to be concerned about this?

I think you need to raise the question with the school now because there will be future situations where separation by sex matters and the school need to start thinking about how to accommodate this boy without impacting on the girls. If you say nothing they will use the excuse that no one complains so we can just give the boy whatever he wants.

Biological sex is the place it should be.

I have three and work in schools.

But it’s perfectly ok to do that whilst still keeping them in single sex groups for some elements.

I wonder how his presence affected the language used in this session. Was the teacher able to refer to “your body”, or, knowing that there was a boy present, did she have to depersonalise the learning by referring to “girls’ bodies”? That is also discriminatory against girls. Boys received a single-sex session tailored to their needs, whereas girls received a mixed-sex generic session.

I’ve taught Year 4 for many years and there are certain lessons that work better separated; neither the (majority of) girls nor boys would feel comfortable asking questions and sharing things if it was mixed. A lot of my children over the years have found these sessions quite hard so this helps create that safe space that they need to make the lessons properly accessible. This decision would have come from management so I would email the school, I’d have been fuming too in your position @Ljcrow .

As if you’re gunning for your daughters friend.

I’m embarrassed for you.

Cool. I'm not embarrassed. I'm looking at the bigger picture. It doesn't mean I have a personal vendetta against the boy in question. It's the principle.

I totally agree with this. I cannot imagine girls of this age feeling comfortable asking questions and talking about this freely with boys there. They'd be mortified. And vice versa I'm sure.

I really don't understand why posters are advocating for this to be fully mixed.

Obviously this doesn't mean there can't be some mixed sessions / bots should learn about what happens to girls and vice versa.

Why would she be 'gunning' for anyone?

Its about what's safe, appropriate, necessary, respectful for all children.

She's not gunning for anyone.

He shouldn't be in that talk because he isn't actually a girl.

He probably won’t be reading Mumsnet so it doesn’t matter.

Schools should not be socially transitioning pupils and this needs to be raised with SLT and Governors. It goes against all current guidance. Having said this, both groups of children should receive the same lesson either together or separately. It's good for the boys to learn about periods and girls should understand about boys' puberty changes, wet dreams etc. Do you think the school is doing this OP?

No, they just spoke to the girls (and the boy in question) about girl-specific issues, so presumably the same for the boys.

I've managed to find the actual RSE overview they sent out. This is what they'll do next year in year 5:

"Recap prior learning on menstruation- and teach to the boys too.
• Learn about wet dreams- boys only
• Recap changes in the body - emotional and physical due to
puberty and normalise the varied age in which this can start and
finish.
• Recap the importance of personal hygiene and grooming.
• Pupils are taught to ask a trusted adult if they have further
questions.
• Recap what a stereotype is and consider stereotyping around
sexuality as well as gender, emphasising the difference between.
Emphasise the importance being everyone having the right to be
themselves and respected no matter what. Understand that
protected characteristics are protected by law, not simply in school."

It has nothing to do with you, this child’s parents will have decided this with the school.
separating kids to talk about puberty is stuoid anyway in my opinion, all children should be taught all puberty signs.

The irony of trans people expecting us to refer to them as their "acquired gender" and use their preferred pronouns and refusing to accept that we don't identify as cis and therefore misgender us all the time is outstanding.

Well of course it's to do with her. Her daughters single sex lessons now have a boy in them. Why don't girls deserve the time and space to process this information without boys present?

On another note, why is this boy learning about what happens to girls bodies during puberty but not what will happen to his own?

all females are not biologically the same, neither are all males. That’s simply demonstrably untrue.

All females share biological traits that are distinct from biological traits all males share. Puberty is one of the periods where this is particularly manifest.

I don’t know why, because as i said it’s not my business. Why do girls ‘need time and space to process without boys present’ in a lesson at school? They can go home and process it alone. Unless you make a big deal of it, it’s highly unlikely the girls will care that this child is there.
The OP doesn’t get to decide if this child is included in this way. Her only right so to remove her child from the classs if she wishes.

Agree.
OP what do you think will happen if a biological boy hears about female puberty?

we had this. The boy stayed with the boys for the lessons in year 4 about periods. The boys all go and play sport or something for an hour.

In year 5 they go over it together but they prefer to do girls first so they can ask questions etc and feel more comfortable. Of course a boy shouldn’t be in it. He’s not getting periods!

Not all biological females will experience puberty in the same way, nor will all biological males. This child might have an intersex condition where they will experience female puberty for all we know.

The school has decided to make these classes single sex.

They have then completely undermined that by allowing a boy to be present.

Given the recent SC clarification that single sex provision means biological sex only, I expect they are on very shaky ground here and the OP is completely within her rights to complain, which I'm sure she will.

Why on earth would you advocate for a boy to attend classes designed to prepare him for female puberty (which he won't experience) but not male puberty (which he will)?

Its utterly neglectful. To this boy as well as all the girls.

Oh come on. Enough of this biology for the insane.

There are commonalities that all/most girls will experience and commonalities that all/most boys will experience. We all know that, even you.

Are you going to prepare boys for the onset of their periods?