AIBU to ask for more flexibility before accepting this job offer?

[Aabbaas]

Have an offer from a company. Been in my role for years and I have lots of flexibility with my working hours which is key as I have a 5 year old DD and do school runs etc.

Role is hybrid: 2 days at home, 3 days in the office. Office is in a part of London which isn’t convenient for me and would mean commuting for 1 hr 45 min door to door.
Day starts at 8:30 to 5:30 but they have made it clear it’s busy so I think extra hours are expected.

I can only consider this role if they allowed me to work from home 3 days a week and start at 9am most days and theb leave at 4pm when in the office and do the pick up. Then I’d reconnect in the evening to finish work.
Is this an unreasonable request? It is what ai do with my employer but have earnt this flexibility over a long tenure and I appreciate a new company might think IABU.

Keen to hear thoughts

what about asking for 0.8 across 5 days.
i don’t think there is harm in asking. They may flex if they really want you

no one can speak for OP’s employer (not even you!). We don’t know how flexible they can or will be.

Just have to ask and decide what you'll do if they say no. I asked for 8-3 and evenings so I can make the hours up, and in the office once every other week as opposed to once a week. They agreed despite saying every week in the office was essential.

The problem isnt the finishing early. Its the being on full time pay and doing this all the time. No one ever really "makes up the hours in the evening" and its less useful time to the employers. I don't really understand why people in this position dont ask for 0.8 or 0.9 as an answer. It can be really tax efficient and ive never had a request for 0.8 turned down, or indeed turned one down as a line manager.

I've worked in HR/recruitment for 30+ years. Flexi-working is definitely NOT left until offer stage if it's a deal breaker for you. You have wasted everyone's time and, as they will have to go to market again as they will have presumably rejected the other candidates whilst you're faffing around, you have also cost them an awful lot of money. I would be fuming if someone withdrew from an offer on the basis of something you could and should have asked about before you even submitted a CV.

I hope you are able to agree something but if you can't, take my advice - ask the question right from the offset before you waste everyone else's time.

Lots of parents make up hours in the evenings. I'm one of them and have just logged off for the evening 15m ago. I do this at least 3 evenings a week. It's pretty miserable on a lovely summer evening, but needs must.

Why is it always the men with such inflexible hours that they can’t help with child logistics?

How about your DH asks for shorter/longer/more flexible hours?

can you ask for a 4 day week spread across 5 days and work shorter days officially? I did this in a professional role for years and it worked very well for me, the firm and for our clients - clients paid less, work paid me less, I was around for the client 5 days a week and I got the flexibility I wanted.

I would do some more digging by speaking to potential new colleagues and HR and then I would ask directly. You absolutely shouldn't take it without having the conversation it will just lead to stress for you when you start and your commitments haven't changed.

It’s negotiating contractual terms.

No one in their right mind would negotiate pay or other terms prior to even being offered the role!

They won’t have rejected other candidates until they know their preferred candidate has accepted. They can say no, she will decline the offer and they will move on to the next candidate on the list.

I beg to differ! I work late most days and also at the weekend if I’ve got a lot on! Speak for yourself, but lots of people make up the hours.

I think this should have been asked at the end of the interview. Did they not ask whether you had any questions which is when you could have asked what are the specific requirements regarding office hours/WFH.

Be all means ask, but as others have said unless it is a very niche role or something few are trained in and they are desperate for you to work there I think the answer is likely to be no. You say yourself it's the norm for lots of women to have that commute in London, so any female co workers with children would be annoyed if you start with better arrangements than them. This could then result in your arrangement being changed rather than theirs and you end up jobless as you say you wouldn't be able to do this.

Extra days from home AND arriving late AND leaving early would be way to much for me as a manager. One of the three I would probably agree to, but no more. Even in professional services most firms are pushing back to more time in the office as it is a lot more productive overall for the company. I think this may not be the job for you.

How many hours a day would you expect to make up in the evenings and is that even do'able?

Time with your daughter so you are looking to start work at 8pm?? I don't think it's sustainable. Realistically you need reduced hours not flexibility.

It’s also a health and welfare issue. I don’t like my staff logging in til late, it means they never really switch off from work and then are subject to burn out, fatigue and become less productive. It’s not sustainable in the long run.

Of course ask! What have you got to lose? If they want you enough they’ll give you it.

If they say no, you haven’t lost out as you wouldn’t take it anyway.

And tough shit if others in the office don’t like it, that’s their fault for not asking.

i once went for a London based job, many many years ago when WFH wasn’t as common, and said I’d take it if it was WFH. They agreed as they wanted me so much.

Can’t believe the hard time you’re getting on here OP.

15 years and counting, so most of my adult working life.

Thankfully I'm self employed and can choose my own hours. Some of us work best in the evenings and would find the concept of working 9-5 (or thereabouts) soul destroying.

Feel free to ask but expect them to say no. You’re not just asking to WFH one extra day a week but also start at a later time, they probably won’t accept this unless you’re the perfect candidate, they didn’t have a great back up and they really can’t be bothered finding another.

No harm in asking. It's perfectly normal for things to evolve during the interview process and for potential candidates to compare what they could get with each employer they interview with. They might say yes, they might suggest a compromise or they might say no. Just be prepared with what you want to do in each scenario.

I think it’s very unreasonable. If you can’t meet their requirements then don’t take the job. Like PP said, it’s almost guaranteed that your new colleagues will be pissed off and that’s not a good start if you need their help and cooperation. (I know this because I have seen it for myself).

From the employer’s point of view they are going to be pissed off if they offer it and you start negotiating your hours/location. From their point of view they set out the terms of what they need and you are unable to fulfil them.

Its different if you are established there but expecting them to make concessions for your lack of childcare is unlikely to go down well and unfortunately is why some places still don’t like employing women with children.

Would you be able to do the extra work they hinted at?

We had a newbie negotiate their wfh arrangements and it got very awkward as their colleagues resented it and made it fairly clear.

But then you wouldn’t apply for a 9-5 job. I know how hard it is to work around childcare but it’s a full day a week that would need to be made up in the evening. While making up the hours might be possible, it’s also a full day per week that the employer doesn’t have an employee available for meetings or to provide cover if needed during the week. That’s quite a big ask all things considered.

I know a few people who commute to London. A two hour door-to-door journey is normal.

In many ways, the commute time and having children is not their problem to solve.

8.30-5.30 pm is a long working day - what ever happened to 9-5!

That's not how it works. There is of course negotiation at offer stage but it will be within parameters (company policy). It is just naive and time wasting to think you can accept a job and then assume they will fulfil your expectations. Job offers are for grown ups, not kids in a playground negotiating swapsies. Both parties need to be open about what is possible from the offset, no sane company would not just tell you what their flexi policy is if you ask for it when you see a role advertised.

It does happen that they have a reserve in place if the preferred candidate says no but it isn't always the case. Particularly for specialist/senior roles. You cannot assume. I've seen countless roles go back to market. Recruitment is incredibly expensive which makes time wasters like the OP is potentially going to be all the more frustrating.

You should ask but I think this might not be the job for you because they are saying that extra hours are routinely expected.

I would keep searching for something which is genuinely flexible.