AIBU to suggest emailing Andy Burnham about access to women’s toilets?

[UnDeuxTwuh]

Aibu to suggest you can email Andy Burnham if you are what he calls one of the “tiny, tiny, tiny number of people” who believe that men including “transgender women” should not be allowed to use women’s toilets.

[email protected]

Perhaps if he gets enough emails he’ll see he is not right.

Transwomen aren’t “blokes in dresses”. It is, however now much easier for a man to enter the women’s loos - he doesn’t even need a dress. Can just say he’s a trans man and was born female. It’s all an absolutely massive waste of time. Only that isn’t happening, and nor were transwomen going into toilets to assault women.

Over 90% of women who are raped or sexually assaulted are attacked by someone known to them, and 57% by a partner or ex-partner. Over a third of women who are sexually assaulted are attacked in their own homes. The problem is not transwomen using the loo at the shopping centre or pizza express. It’s the men living with us in our homes. And it’s really weird and frankly tired that mumsnetters like to be so up in arms about transpeople and bathrooms and completely ignore the genuine threats to women’s safety.

So if they aren’t a bloke in a dress, what are they? You can’t change sex.

And I have seen posts from people so traumatised by something that they are terrified if a bloke is in the toilets. I’m sure you will suggest that they never go out. But it shouldn’t be controversial to expect women only in a women only toilet.

So how will these women who can’t even look at a man feel about trans men, who look more masculine than transwomen being in the “women only” toilet? Because that’s what legally has to happen now. It’s almost as if you were all so blinded by prejudice you didn’t really think all this through….

It also seems to have completely passed you by that there are people who do not have a defined sex in clinical/genetic terms. You can have XY chromosomes and be born in a female presenting body, and vice versa. You can only have one sex chromosome, or many duplicated sex chromosomes, and have sex characteristics and/or genitalia that don’t fit neatly into either classification.

Well done for being so disparaging. A transman is a woman and as such is entitled to use the ladies toilet.

Not great but they pose far less of a threat than a biological man, even if he does think he’s a woman

Are you claiming that trans ‘women’ all have that condition

Absolutely THIS!
The danger really is from gender conforming men!!!

Where exactly are trans people supposed to use the toilet?

Because trans women will be at risk in the gents, and trans men (and also "butch"; androgynous or "tomboy" women!) will make women feel unsafe in ladies because they far more often look male than obviously trans.

So do we then somehow need to provide seperate spaces for trans men and trans women, without making them sitting ducks for violence and harassment?

It seems thats exactly what the anti-trans brigade actually want, and exactly what is happening in the name of "protecting women's hard won rights". It's punching down and using trans people as protection from predators and bigots - like human shields- rather than addressing the issue of the predators and bigots!

You literally said there are women who would be frightened at the sight of male presenting people in the loo.

You’ll get a response from a very junior Labour regional organiser- and he’ll not even know you sent your email.

Transwomen use the mens
Transmen use the ladies

Transwomen are men who have grown up with male privilege and testosterone and think they can become women. They are still men, regardless of how many hormones they take and whether their penis is removed. And they pose the same level of risk as any male stranger

People with those conditions aren’t trans, they are intersex. Again, you seem to be forgetting what you said, which was “people can’t change sex”. To which I pointed out that there are people who don’t fall into the standard categories of sex, and what about them?

Considering you are so keen to be so vocal, you seem curiously uninformed.

Objectively, that’s simply untrue. Someone with their penis removed does not factually pose the same risk as someone with a penis when it comes to an assault.

And as the facts show, male strangers pose a very, very small risk as 90% of rape and assault victims are attacked by someone they know.

It really isn’t. A trans woman has had all the male privileges and now decides that’s not enough. They want more. They claim to be something they aren’t.

Fortunately the Supreme Court agrees so it’s all good

Cutting off someone’s cock doesn’t make them less violent

You’ll get a load of them telling you they should use the disabled. 🙄 That’s what usually happens. But it’s fine for disabled people to be put out as long as transwomen aren’t in the ladies’ apparently.

What about the threat to the trans man who uses the ladies? The threat of abuse from members of the public, discrimination from staff asking them to leave etc. Or maybe they should be made to carry their original birth certificate with them at all times... ot maybe they could wear a badge to identify themselves, maybe a pink triangle... hmmm. Now where has THAT idea been used before in history?

I can guarantee that most people will have encountered trans men in recent years without having the slightest clue they were born female. And guess what, I bet there are some men who will pretend to be trans men to access women's spaces!

Until efforts are focused on educating men, tackling mysgony and ensuring men who rape, beat, groom and harm women are brought to justice, women will remain unsafe. Restricting and humiliating a tiny marginalised proportion of the population who are trans is not going to protect women.

I actually don’t have the time or crayons to explain this to you. Think hard. Think REALLY HARD. What is the very obvious reason it would be safer for a woman if someone doesn’t have a penis….?

They can use the men’s toilets. If they fear for their safety then that is for them to deal with. Because the common risk factor is men.

They don’t know what it is like to be a woman. If they are concerned for their safety then they can campaign for another option.

Do you know many trans women then? As you can speak so confidently as to their life experiences?

I said violent. Not rape,

And do you really think it’s impossible to violate a woman without a penis? They can still commit sexual assault

I would draw you a picture but I can’t be arsed with people who feel they have the right to give consent on behalf of others

Being born male means they know nothing about being a girl or a woman.

Considering you are specifically referring to gendered violence that absolutely includes assault by penetration.

As I have already told you numerous times, which you could just feel free to look up yourself - the vast, vast majority of violence against women, sexual or otherwise, is not committed by strangers at all. This tired trans-bashing is just an opportunity for you to ignore the much bigger threat to women, which is much closer to home.

Neither is giving them carte blanche to invade women’s spaces.

Presumably you would have no issue with a bloke using the ladies changing rooms at the swimming pool along with the women and girls? Cool.

I know the biggest threat is in the home.

You are entitled to think men should go into women’s spaces. Just like I am entitled to think they shouldn’t. And there is even a law about it

Who are you saying can use the mens toilets? Trans men? Absolutely, they should - but not according to you and the SC because trans men are women.
And therefore women according to you so they DO know what it's like to be a woman. And by the SC, they should be using the ladies. Except they cant, because women will think they are men.

So in protecting women from an illogical threat from trans women, the answer is to harm trans men, who even though they dont identity as women, you are insisting ARE still women... And protecting women is the point right? Is that ALL who were born female or just those who were born female and also immediately"look" identifiably female.

Right...

I mean as as we know this whole debate is "only" about ALL women's safety.. not any sort of bias or prejudice at play here oh no no no...