To have said that women should be drafted equally to men??

[Pukkajones]

Chatting to a group of friends about the state of the world etc and while in theory I’m against conscription and forced national military service I did say that I think it’s right that there is more equality in girls/women being treated the same as boys/men in the countries that have service.
One friend who has 3 teen girls really had a go at me and got very upset. I have a teen boy and teen girl. While I hate the idea of EITHER being forced to enter the military I think they should be treated equally ( roles allowing - ie some combat roles aren’t open to women) if it came to it. ‘it’ being an actual war with Russia and/or its allies.

it got VERY heated, even though I and another friend pointed out that there are many non-combat roles in the military. And that if we did end up in a World War we’d likely have a role in it regardless of sex or age.

YABU - only men should be drafted
YANBU - in the modern world both sexes should serve in the military.

I'm in a country with national service. The law has just changed so that girls may also have to enlist.

Women now serve in the military on equal terms to men, so I don't see why they wouldn't be conscripted if there was a major conflict.

More women than men would probably receive exemptions though due to child care etc.

So long as they are also being paid equally to men and given the same career progression respect etc

I agree. I would not expect men to go off and die for me to stay at home simply because I was born female.

My health issues would likely preclude me but not my sex.

This.

More broadly, once all caring responsibilities, emotional labour and work in the home is fully equal between the sexes, it is then that we can be expected to give to the same level on this.

It should be equal, as in “nobody should be conscripted”.

But yes in the even of an alien invasion or something else genuinely threatening our survival, you don’t need a penis to fly a drone so no reason for women not to be involved in equal numbers.

No, thanks. This is where my feminism will fail me. I will happily be a handkerchief-waving housewife, for the duration of any wars.

Women have always fought in wars and some kind of military service in one way or another.
Joan of Arc, Boudicca, Florence Nightingale, Edith Cavell are some notable ones, and Margaret Ann Bulkley (also known as James Barry) who dressed as a man to study medicine and served as a surgeon in the British Army.
I'm so tired of this narrative that women are such fragile creatures and need to be protected.
Whilst some roles in modern day military might not be suited for most women (infantry for example), there are many, many roles where women are level and even excel.

If men are expected to do compulsory military service, so should women, its not all bayonet training and gore, it's more self discipline and life skills that are far more useful than taking a gap year to go partying on some beaches.

So your “feminism” is moveable?

I wouldn’t call myself a feminist. Completely believe in equality so yes, if young men are conscripted, young women should be, too (if both meet minimum physical and academic requirements).

It was tongue in cheek.

I don't think anyone should be conscripted.

Even in the unlikely event of an all out war between Europe and Russia, there isn’t going to be a ground war in the UK is there? It will be drones, missiles, hacking, and damage to infrastructure.

I guess we could send air cover and tanks to mainland Europe, but the population of Russia is small enough that even if every man woman and child took up arms, there are enough regular troops in the EU and UK to easily beat them without needing conscription. Ukraine seem to be holding them off pretty well.

I actually couldn't believe this topic didn't come up more when we were opening our homes to Ukrainian women and children.

How can we possibly ever pursue and hope for equality unless we insist on it everywhere?

Yes you can’t pick and choose. If you wanted to be treated as an equal you need to take the responsibilities as well.

I’m not one of those people who thinks males and females are physically equal. There are just somethings especially concerning strength where males generally do better. So the army should first be about effectiveness rather than box ticking, but like you say there are plenty of roles outside combat.

Conscripts should be given roles which suit their skills so you might imagine men and women would sometimes get assigned different roles but surely there can be no good argument for forcing men into battle and not women? What was her argument?

This magical drone and cyclops warfare was the thinking our dear leaders have had for the last 20 or so years, resulting in an army that can no longer fill Wembley stadium.
Drones and clever computer viruses don't take and hold land, infantry does.
And as the Russian invasion of Ukraine has shown, trench warfare is here to stay. Hence why all European countries, including ourselves and massively rearming, buying new tanks, and thinking of ways to increase the numbers.

I think people forget during wars that even though women are not on the front lines they are often the only people keeping the wheels turning. Childcare, teaching, production, farming, medicine, mechanics, fire fighting, aircraft detection and gunning.

Women DO serve in the Forces and some on the front line. A female medic saved my sons life on the battlefield

I agree.

I want equality.

Men and women should be treated equally in terms of conscription.

I think conscription for unemployed/not in education young people of both sexes could be a good idea (if managed properly).

Children need carers. So while I agree, and it possibly should be a choice each family makes, one parent needs to stay home.

We could have extended a welcome to any parent with young children, fathers or mothers. But as caring is still predominantly down to women I doubt it would have made much difference as to who actually came in the end.

Your friend sounds unbearably immature. Her daughters are no more precious than your sons or anyone else's children. I actually couldn't be around someone like that.

Obviously there are loads of roles in the military that women can do. More or less everything. But if it comes to front line fighting as in Ukraine no we shouldn't expect them to do it and we don't. It's not got much to do with their abilities, but the extra risks they run. Rape and forced pregnancy are an absolute weapon of war. Every time. Look it up. At this point women become a dangerous pawn.

Yes of course we should as women. If it was good enough for QE2 it’s good enough for me. I don’t need a penis to operate a drone to kill Putin.

Equality between the sexes isn’t a buffet where you can pick and choose.

If there was conscription, I would expect everyone to enlist (with reasonable exceptions). I would expect 50/50 representation out of the eligible population.

Conscription is one of the examples highlighting unfairness in the system of equality.

Ok.

Neither do I.

Completely agree.