To have said that women should be drafted equally to men??

[Pukkajones]

Chatting to a group of friends about the state of the world etc and while in theory I’m against conscription and forced national military service I did say that I think it’s right that there is more equality in girls/women being treated the same as boys/men in the countries that have service.
One friend who has 3 teen girls really had a go at me and got very upset. I have a teen boy and teen girl. While I hate the idea of EITHER being forced to enter the military I think they should be treated equally ( roles allowing - ie some combat roles aren’t open to women) if it came to it. ‘it’ being an actual war with Russia and/or its allies.

it got VERY heated, even though I and another friend pointed out that there are many non-combat roles in the military. And that if we did end up in a World War we’d likely have a role in it regardless of sex or age.

YABU - only men should be drafted
YANBU - in the modern world both sexes should serve in the military.

Yes - presumably in reality everyone might be eligible for conscription but then only some would be deemed fit for active combat roles. Given, as people have noted, men are stronger and faster than women on average then presumably a bigger percentage of them would pass the physical requirements, but I don't see why the ones who do meet the minimum standards would then be deselected on the grounds they're women.

Judging by how ready women are to blindly sign themselves up for yet more work to make themselves seem 'equal', while expecting no other balance to shift there really isn't much work left to do for the right-wing patriarchy/incel community is there?

How ironic that they've got the women doing the lion's share of this labour too.

An assumption that men who have to use violence in their job might have toxic masculinity as a job requirement, my, what a stretch!

Yes in principle but what’s the point? Women are hardly going to be fighting in the trenches are they? Most of us would be a liability.

For it to be truly equal women would have to expected to do the same tasks and face the same risks as men, which we can’t.

How ironic that they've got the women doing the lion's share of this labour too.

Who's they? Did the patriarchy make women take on more work? 🤔

No woman has passed either course although some have passed the All Arms Commando course and some have passed P Company.

Do you need a penis to serve in the infantry in equal numbers on the front line?

Not everybody gets to fly a drone.

Absolutely both men and women should be expected to contribute. The roles may need to be different in some cases, but generally women should be able to do most of the same things. There are female fighter pilots now, admittedly not many, but it shows that women can be as capable as men.

So from the equality point of view - yes, they should be drafted as well.
From a practical point of view - if the nation is to survive, we still need women to get pregnant and bear children, and actually someone must stay back to feed them and look after them, so I think that the number of women drafted in hand-to-hand combat should be limited.

I work in the corporate world where there is a huge gender imbalance. Most senior positions are still held by men. There is still direct and indirect sexism holding women back. There is a massive gender pay gap. Given that things are still not equal and that fundamentally I am not therefore treated as an equal in this respect, I’m not really willing to suddenly be deemed equal when it comes to conscription. They can’t have it both ways.

Honestly you are probably right but I am under 5ft tall and I am not eligible to join the army where I live even if I wanted to. I’d say I’d be pure useless .
ideally no one should be forced into it of either sex but I suppose it’s not an ideal world we live in.

Well yes but that’s because historically the men weren’t there as they were off fighting. In this hypothetical scenario we’re all discussing it’s reasonable to assume the maximum conscription age comes down because women are now included and the pot to select from is larger. Therefore more men are left at “home” so the roles at home also get split.

It's a twisted and very superficial view of "equality" that involves both women and men endangering themselves "equally" in wars started and perpetuated by (principally) men, and which disproportionately support the interests of the ruling classes on both sides.

And if you were reporting a rape or domestic violence- would you want the police to be male then? Because we’ve tried that and they treated rape victims like they were liars by default, and decided domestic violence was a family matter best dealt with behind closed doors.

Conscientious objector is what that is called, I think??

A reasonable assumption.

women were conscripted in non-combat roles for ww2.

but anyway the health of our nation is so poor they may not be able to get the necessary numbers if they only recruit healthy working age males. Once you take out all the mentally ill and those with chronic conditions and disabilities they will need to women.

My point was that a female physique does not preclude participation in warfare. You can substitute “flying a drone” for any other non-physically demanding role.

Some people do believe that a penis is required for frontline service yes. Hence the thread.

Who's they?

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/grammar/antecedents/

Did the patriarchy make women take on more work? 🤔

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I would expect 50/50 representation out of the eligible population

What would you do about pregnancy? Either at time of conscription, during service? Or as a result of rape eg by enemy combatants? Or for that matter, rape itself of which women are much more likely to be victims?

As someone who has served in the Armed Forces, I am a firm believer that if national service was ever reintroduced, it should also be applicable to women. If it had to happen, there are some roles that should likely still be reserved as male only.

I would also consider that if we introduced national service, the compulsory period should be on 'home only' type duties regardless of sex, as most enforced service does not build a professional army. Those who show aptitude and interest can then be offered the opportunity to remain and follow a full career path.

I don't want any of this to happen though.

I think world war in a modern multicultural Europe, would cause civil war within each country. I'm not sure how conscription would play out with street warfare between opposing nationalities within each conscripting country. Throw religious allegiances into the mix on top, and it would rapidly become ungovernable chaos.

I agree tbh. I don’t think it’s a win for feminism because we’ve been sold a complete lie - equality is not the same as parallel. Women and men are different and have different biological roles - we can be equals; that doesn’t mean ‘doing the same’. It means ‘having access to’ the same.

So where war is concerned, it’s a no from me. Women would be far kore
vulnerable in combat and I don’t think you realise this from your post. There would be sexual violence, rape and a whole lot of horrific stuff I won’t mention. I read a journalist piece years ago about about a female solider who had been captured and then raped, sexually assaulted in the most horrific ways. They had to remove items from her uterus, some of which had hand written messages from her rapists on. She was very, very poorly and obviously incredibly traumatized. Make no mistake, our biological make up would make women vulnerable at war.

Tricky. I think that women are the future of that society and therefore we need more women to survive than men. Women with children and caring responsibilities should obviously be exempt. I think that it's men that start wars and women are at risk of sexual violence in combat roles far more than men. Men should be conscripted and young, single women should be encouraged to volunteer away from the front lines .

My great uncle wasn’t drafted because he was a widower with 4 kids. Instead he went to work in a munitions factory, there would in all likely hood be exemptions like this AND drafts usually target young men, meaning more - at first anyway- wouldn’t have families.