M&S changing rooms

[SweetChilliGirl]

Was I unreasonable to send this to M&S?

Good morning,

Having not shopped for lingerie with you for several years, due to your policy of allowing trans-identifying men into the women's changing rooms, can I now be assured that, in line with the judgement of the supreme court males will no longer be allowed to identify their way into your single sex changing rooms, thus preserving biological women's dignity and safety? I would very much like to be able to shop with you again.

I look forward to hearing from to to clarify this important matter.

Regards,

Sweetchilligirl

Well if “no one is going to start doing genital checks 🙄” then what’s the point in getting so het up over it all?

Well passing trans women, who have a desire to use M&S changing rooms to rape women, still can. Men who now just want to say “I’m a trans man” can go in and rape women.

The only people who are going to be denied entry are trans women who don’t pass (in the changing room attendants opinion) as a woman.

And in the scenario in which a trans woman if denied entry and says “but I am female, I have a vagina” they’ll have to be let in anyway because “no one is going to do genital checks 🙄”

This has literally achieved nothing

Is that how single sex spaces over the decades have been policed? Come on. You can’t actually be that stupid.

How many people are being raped in the m&s changing rooms exactly? You say it like it’s an every day problem, surely it can’t be that frequent?

Pass = deceive.

Very few men can actually deceive women into thinking he’s something he’s not.

What has been achieved is that that man can now be challenged and asked to leave a female space.

Over the last 10 years the social contract that kept the vast majority of men out of female spaces (remember the 13 year old girls who chased Eddie Izzard out of a female toilet back in the day?) has been trashed. It can now be put back into place.

Could you actually answer the question @Ddakji or are you just going to insult me?

Is rape your bar? Jesus.

Agree OP. Keep the blokes out.

Can you not read? Or is your comprehension so bad you can’t understand that I was asking a question about a specific point? Jesus

they could of course just stop providing changing rooms
they've already removed toilets in several local branches

How do you think single sex spaces were policed prior to them being trashed over the last 10 years? Here’s a hint - not by checking anyone’s genitals.

Unless you’re 10 years old, you know how they were policed. By the social contract that kept the vast majority of men out. And if they made the mistake of coming in they could be challenged by women and indeed girls - two 13 year old girls chased Ellie Izzard out of a female toilet way back in the day - this time last year they couldn’t do that. Now they can.

So pervy man goes in and puts hidden camera in. Then unsuspecting woman goes in and becomes unexpected voyeur porn star. Fabulous!!!!!

(This happens, by the way.)

Exactly my point. It’s a non argument. Transwomen are not going to the effort of transitioning in order to enter M&S changing rooms to rape women. And yet this nonsense thread is based on the argument that the OP will reject using M&S if they can’t offer changing rooms only for people with vaginas. And yet when you ask how they expect to enforce that all you get is eye rolls and ‘noones checking genitals obviously’

And has 0 to do with trans people.

This goes back to my point that a transman with a full beard would be “chased out a toilet” but on false grounds.

What is transitioning? Over the last 10 years this has simply meant a man saying “I identify as a woman”. That’s it.

So, hardly much effort to go to.

But also - men can and do go to great lengths to access their victims.

Trasnwomen are men. Men as a class are a threat to women. Transwomen aren’t some sacred caste of men.

But now they don’t even need to bother doing that. They can stroll in, dressed as they are and say “I’m allowed in, I’m a trans man”

so what has this achieved again?

Some men are bad and have ill intent. If you think closing this ‘loophole’ will do anything to protect the safety of women, you’re mad.

She would be rightly challenged. And if she’s gone to those lengths she’ll be expecting that.

We don’t make the law on the basis of a tiny number of women on T. Who, by the way, you are totally using to make a false argument. Don’t pretend you care about that woman.

Tell me, why are you so determined that women and girls shouldn’t have anything for themselves, that they privacy, dignity and safety don’t matter?

So pervy man goes in and puts hidden camera in. Then unsuspecting woman goes in and becomes unexpected voyeur porn star. Fabulous!!!!!

Cis men work for companies as cleaners and seem to be able to enter women's toilets etc, so they could do that anyway couldn't they?

As of last week, they can be challenged. And M&S can be challenged if they allow male people into female spaces. Governments can be challenged. Workplaces and schools can be challenged.

Woman = female. That’s the law.

Because this has nothing to do with privacy and dignity. I don’t want to change in front of anyone - male or female. So I go in my cubicle, shut the door or draw the curtain and leave when I’m done.

I realise it's not the done thing to correct punctuation and grammar on a forum, but I seriously think the lack of clear sentences and clauses will hinder the argument.

Yes, they could. You might not have spotted than when a male cleaner (no such thing as cis) is in a female toilet there’s a sign up announcing his presence, so that users know the space is temporality mixed sex.

He’d get sacked if he did this and was found out, so it’s seems a bit of a stretch.

They can be challenged, but when they say “no I’m good, I have a vagina” they can come in? And that’s ok with everyone here? 🤷

Why makes you think this is solely about you?

Because the question was “why do you think”

so who else do you expect me to reference in the answer