M&S changing rooms

[SweetChilliGirl]

Was I unreasonable to send this to M&S?

Good morning,

Having not shopped for lingerie with you for several years, due to your policy of allowing trans-identifying men into the women's changing rooms, can I now be assured that, in line with the judgement of the supreme court males will no longer be allowed to identify their way into your single sex changing rooms, thus preserving biological women's dignity and safety? I would very much like to be able to shop with you again.

I look forward to hearing from to to clarify this important matter.

Regards,

Sweetchilligirl

Or maybe she just wants to dress as she feels comfortable and not conform to anyone else's expectations. You assume she wants to look like a man rather than just dressing in a way that she feels happy with. As she has done since she was 3 years old. Maybe she shouldn't have to answer to the fact that she doesn't dress in a "feminine" way because, after all, that is what women have been fighting for for decades.

YANBU all shops with changing rooms like this need to fall in line now. Women's spaces must be protected.

A few criminal TWs doesn't mean they all are, though, does it?

For decades, TW have been passing as women and using women's changing rooms, and the terfs never knew it and came out unscathed!!

Male-on-female attacks do not happen in women's loos and changing rooms, by and large.

Enough happen to justify having single sex changing.
Very, very small numbers of trans women in the past compared to now. But you know this.

Protected from whom, though?

If you mean big hairy men dressed as men with all their muscle intact because they've never been near HRT, but just declare to the air that they are women, then yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

TW who have taken the time and trouble to dissolve most of their muscle with oestrogen injections and who are dressed as women and look as much like women as possible, and might also have had surgery, then no, I don't think women's spaces need protecting from them. Men who want to attack women have many other ways to do so that don't involve going to all the bother of socially, medically, and/or surgically transitioning. Why on earth would they do all that if they were not genuinely trans? (By which I mean, wanting to change sex (as far as is possible) and then just live their lives in peace.)

Men who want to harm women don't need to pretend to be trans. They usually attack their partners, or break into homes, or lie in wait at night for a lone woman to come along after dark.

Not saying that this is OK, of course!!!! But I am saying that changing rooms during the shopping day is not how/where predators usually attack.

I come from Brighton, and TW were around in the Eighties. I knew one called Stephanie in the mid-Eighties. I'm not old enough to remember further back than that.

You say enough to justify single sex changing....well, some people die during childbirth, some people die during a car journey, and yet millions and millions of people still do those things. There is an element of risk in absolutely everything, including taking your clothes off in public. But the vast, vast majority of people come to no harm.

When I say protected I mean in essence to be honored. If I say something is blue it should be kept blue and not mixed with yellow. Most TW don't even have the full surgical procedure. TW are not women and there is no matter of injections that can change your sex. Unisex rooms are available for those who choose. If you disagree that is up to you but this is my last response as my view won't be changed. The supreme court has made a common sense judgment and companies who made their adaptations need to have a rethink. Happy Easter 👍🏽

I would be OK with floor to ceiling doors. My local store has big gaps at the top and bottom of it's changing rooms though. Potentially allowing phones or cameras to be slipped in.

To answer the posters who asked how this would be policed, it probably wouldn't. But by making it clear that single sex spaces are just that, makes it much less likely that men, however they identify, will come in.

We have skilled midwives and seatbelts to mitigate some of those risks. A way to mitigate risks in public toilets and changing rooms is for them to be single sex.

Can't WAIT to see your reaction when a female to male trans man who has been transitioned for a long time and easily passes for a man, but hasn't yet undergone sex reassignment surgery, uses the same changing room as you as he would be protected under that same policy.

So are you arguing for mixed sex everything ?

If they advertise a space as being for women and allow in men then they are lying - they should label it as mixed sex. Any gym or club claiming to have single sex facilities and failing to enforce that would be open to claims of false advertising

I don’t wish to be the minority who do come to harm.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

This article is quite old but I can't imagine things have improved.

OP, you are definitely not unreasonable.

Someone I knew who has experienced a huge amount of violence and sexual violence from male people was shopping in a store that allowed male people to be fitted for bras in the bra fitting rooms. She went there to try on a new bra and heard a male verbally attacking a female attendant who said that at the time there was no spare staff to do a fitting.

My friend was very distressed to come out after it had gone quiet to find the male customer videoing themselves in the corridor of the fitting around, including getting footage of her.

This was just a suburban store too. Not M&S though.

Well done on sending your email.

I meant to quote this poster when posting the link to the article from The Independent of all places. It would seem as though a lot of male-on-female attacks do happen in changing rooms.

Our local M&S has turned the men’s changing into a delivery collection area and turned the ladies’ changing into unisex cubicles. They can legally do this, but it makes it very hard to have a pleasant shopping experience. You can’t try things on and show your relatives / friends easily. As a parent bra fitting with a teenage daughter it’s nigh on impossible.

Again this is a problem created by Tras, Stonewall, TWAW etc. if TW were not forcing their way into women’s spaces, a muscular looking women would be assumed to be female.

place the blame for this situation where is belongs. It must be deemed appalling manners and completely inappropriate for any male to go into women’s spaces - completely. Then we can get back to the time where all women ( as defined in the Equality Act) do not g3t questioned.

I still have not met a transwomen who truly passed. Once you’ve met a few, you tend to be introduced to others, even if they do not become friends. I think I’ve met about 20 in the last couple of years - 7 of which I consider friends - 2 being quite close and have been “out” since the 1980s. - they fitted right in in the New Romantic era.

Are you female? Is it that they pass to men, but women spot them? Is it an age thing? I’m in my 60s. My friends are all 40s to 60s. Are you very young and your trans friends are teens?

Yeah, that’s not how it works. 😂😂😂😂

Muscle density and physical advantage very much remain post oestrogen.

I am a woman. I’m 46. I have friends across a very wide age range. I just have very different views to you and as I don’t wish to be rude to you, I’ll leave it there rather than get into exactly what I think of your views.

And as a result they have lost business but are happy with that. I won’t shop in store anywhere without guaranteed single sex spaces. It is sad to self exclude but that is where a lot of females are at the moment.

le.utah.gov/interim/2024/pdf/00000577.pdf

Erm, yes they are. They can have completely open changing rooms, or they can separate them by sex. They cannot have women’s changing rooms and then only permit certain men. That would discriminate against other men.

They aren't discriminating though as women are allowed to use them.

Discrimination would be 'No women' or 'Transwomen only'

I can't see how the SC judgement changes that. Surely it just means a business can offer single sex 'if they want to' - it doesn't mean they have to provide it.