M&S changing rooms

[SweetChilliGirl]

Was I unreasonable to send this to M&S?

Good morning,

Having not shopped for lingerie with you for several years, due to your policy of allowing trans-identifying men into the women's changing rooms, can I now be assured that, in line with the judgement of the supreme court males will no longer be allowed to identify their way into your single sex changing rooms, thus preserving biological women's dignity and safety? I would very much like to be able to shop with you again.

I look forward to hearing from to to clarify this important matter.

Regards,

Sweetchilligirl

YANBU. The more pressure we put on organisations to prioritise the safety of girls and women over men the better. Ignore the dimbo cool girlz who say “it doesn’t bother me”, it’s a point of principle. And a hugely significant one.

Women know the difference between butch looking women, and men. I promise you they do. On the rare occasion a mistake is made, the accuser of the butch looking woman will apologise, and the woman will generally tell her not to worry about it.

I appreciate that it's important to some people. I'm not bothered if they're locked cubicles. Are you going to call me a dimbo cool girl then?

if you’re a gran, as per your username, you’ve been around a while and you’ll surely remember what male and female changing rooms were like before the trend became to allow some men into the women’s changing room.

That’s how they’ll be. I’m sure your androgynous friends can cope as they did in the past. (I can assure you the men don’t “pass” - by that you mean, of course, “be able to deceive women and girls into thinking they’re something they’re not”.)

What happens if it’s not obvious or if a mistake is made ?

Yes - if you can’t see beyond yourself. If you’re happy with mixed sex spaces that’s fine. You don’t get to give away female spaces though. And M&S don’t get to lie about their spaces.

Exactly

How do you think male and female spaces worked in the past? I’m 53, I don’t recall being asked for any ID before entering a female changing room.

My thoughts too. I say this as a woman and a mum of a teenage daughter.

They can, but they can't call them women's, men's or single sex. And they need to be labelled them 'mixed' Because that is what they will be.

What part of my saying that I appreciate that it's important to some people did you fail to read and comprehend?

Reply?

Good luck with that

It won’t and can’t be. Offenders will be charged/prosecuted through people reporting it post-incident, like most unlawful actions.

That’s my point.

How do you propose policing who can enter women’s changing rooms? Are you 100% certain you can identify when someone is trans? Or are you suggesting M&S staff should check genitals before allowing entry?

I don’t try on in store I buy a couple of sizes and return and state that I am return for sizing as was unable to try on in store due to the lack of single sex facilities- I get lots of eye rolls at customer services but tough noogies

So you’re telling me you’re happy for this person to share your women only space?

My daughter presents androgynous. She won’t currently go into ladies toilets without another woman as she has previously received comments even as a teenager. If you think she won’t be challenged in ladies changing rooms now you know nothing. The reality is she will just have to avoid them because of idiots who will try and police an un police able situation.

I don’t doubt you do get lots of eye rolls, if you think the staff at M&S give two hoots where you try your clothes on, you’re living in cuckoo land. All you’ve done is made your own lice harder…while still purchasing their items 😂

This person is female so yes, quite happy.

We don’t need to police this. We don’t make a law based on what can be successfully policed

men don’t belong in women changing rooms
that should be the expectation and that will of itself mean men will be less likely to chance it
especially the obviously male ones
people will look twice , they will notice them being spotted and know that everyone now knows that’s not ok
isng it funny how for centuries people who could almost pass as either sex never had problems ?

And you’d know that by looking at them would you? Get real. There’s absolutely no way a trans man, presenting like this guy, would get into one of these holy changing rooms unchallenged.

and when they are inevitably stopped, what will they need to do to prove their qualifications to enter to you or anyone else? Drop their pants?

I know quite a few transwomen. Not one of them would pass - even the one who has had surgery for jaw shape and Adam’s apple. It is something about the way they walk (possibly because of male hips) or the general shape of the body and shoulders.

Im not talking about people who dress in a ridiculous sexualised, stereotypical fashion. Not one would pass. They know this.

Fortunantly, they are a group who, while they would love to go into female only areas, don’t. We had a discussion several years ago and I said that decision not to enter female only areas was one of the things that made me truly believe they wished to live as women. I said it as a joke, but one said they had talked about it later and wanted to know what other things they did that were male.

They are a lovely group of brilliant humans (firstly) transwomen (secondly) and males (lastly) - what they are not, is women.

I think it’s very important to remember that trans, while an important part of people, is not the only part. They are not 2 dimensional.

I also know quite a few trans people, men and women. I guarantee you can’t tell that they are trans. Similarly, I know women who look quite masculine and one has been accused of being trans on multiple occasions. How do you propose they prove they aren’t in order to gain access to women only spaces?

But you want to reduce them to being 2
dimensional by judging them solely on their genitalia?