To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

Just to qualify - what I've seen is anti-Trump rhetoric. And there's been plenty of anti-Democrat and anti-Leftist rhetoric to match, if not more, so that balances it out.

What you're seeing now (and for the last couple of weeks) is shock at just how awful Trump actually is.

@EasternStandard I agree.
There is good documentary on bbc about the USA and the times it hasn't got involved in the worlds problems. It came under immense criticism.

Then when it does intervene it gets criticised.

I do wonder with this new putin love??. Whether the world's fault lines arnt being drawn between Christians and Muslims.

It's the only reason I can think of putin and rump love in?? He did ends tonight's ramble with a reminder that no one could take USA on.

Trump seems to be so open and wears his heart on his sleeve, apparently some people say zelensky has upset Trump by recent comments. Putin on the other hand has praised Trump.

Trump has written books and been on the media.
I RECKON putin would be studying him and have him pegged.

Putin is harder to pin down.

HAS Trump studied putin?
Does he see him as his most worrying adversary?

Zelensky upset Trump when he refused to partake in a mud-slinging exercise against Biden.

Yes it is all in vain, but if they keep going more will die and it will still have all been in vain.
Ukraine is losing, we are losing. The only way to beat Russia at this point would be to go all in; WW3 and then under threat of the fall of the homeland and direct attack from nuclear armed nations Russia would very likely use nukes, then we would too and after that it would still all be in vain.

I'm most definitely not a Trump fan but look where he is .
He obviously knows how to manipulate and succeed at what he does .
I don't like what he does but that doesn't negate his skill in doing it.
I have to admit that he's focused the world's attention on the war in Ukraine and the overwhelming destruction in Gaza.
Some sort of weird devil's advocacy at play ??

And he's not cut aid to. Ukraine. It's still in place.

I think he’s being played by Putin and is too stupid to realise it.

Isn’t it scary that the 2 men here (Putin and Trump) are mentally unstable/detached/narcissistic/egotistical (whatever you want to call it) and that just these 2 men can jeopardise world peace. To call Zelenskyy a ‘Dictator’ is unbelievable. Why can Trump not see that Putin is the modern day Hitler?!

And it was a ‘ramble’! Trump needs mental health checks in my opinion.

I was listening to a podcast the other day and it made a point to say the most important thing to pay attention to is what is Trump actually doing, what is he signing into power, what are his minions up to whilst his ramblings about turning Gaza into a beach resort, or whatever, dominate the headlines.

It’s like every day with Trump is a good day to bury bad news.

You assume that Trump isn't impressed by Putin. I think he probably approves of his attitude.

Hitler got a lot of plaudits for his strength and decisiveness. The mopping up of undesirables too.

People have short memories and they are also too generous in assuming that they share values. From what I have seen of Trump and Vance, they have common ideas with some of the ideas of theocracies like Iran and faux democracy like Russia.

I wouldn't take them at their word. Suits and tolerable English doesn't mean we here in the UK have much in common culturally or politically.

I think this is incredibly important - don't listen to what he says; look at what he does.

It's true for everyone but especially for someone like Trump. Don't let him distract you.

Well he hasn't halted aid to Ukraine.

I think what is often forgotten by my
European friends is that the average American does NOT care about Ukraine’s borders and just wants it to end (or at the very least, wants to stop our money being sent there).

It is a little surprising to me how much British people care about Ukraine’s border. Yet a lot of their strategy seems to be how to get America more deeply involved in this mess.

Britain should show leadership here if they really care. It’s a multipolar world now, let’s start dealing with this new reality

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-trump-war-zelenskyy-putin-7fe8c0c80b4e93e3bc079c621a44e8bb

Trump says Ukraine started the war that’s killing its citizens.

What are the facts?

I remember when America cared a great deal about what Russia was doing and went to great lengths to keep it “in its place”.

Does America no longer care about being the pre-eminent power and so-called leader of the free world? Will NATO come to an end? We live in interesting times…

Some of that aid was via USAID I understand. This has stopped.

@bombastix I wouldn't take them at their word. Suits and tolerable English doesn't mean we here in the UK have much in common culturally or politically.

I'm not convinced his ramblings could be described at tolerable English. He doesn't seem to have advanced beyond petulant toddlerhood.

They have gone from 'reds under the bed' to 'in bed with the reds'

I agree it is also important to watch what he is doing and he opens his mouth to make ridiculous statements to cover up any bad news he is creating elsewhere.
I think also that the US is pretty much bankrupt (trade deficits everywhere)and Trump is trying to stop the war to cover this up.

@RingoJuice we care because NATO and EU members also share borders with Russia. We care because we experienced a land war in living memory where countries were invaded and taken over by their neighbour

https://www.csis.org/analysis/where-missing-100-billion-us-aid-ukraine

As CSIS has reported before, “aid to Ukraine” is a misnomer because 90 percent of military aid is spent in the United States. Of aid overall, 60 percent is spent in the United States, about 25 percent is spent in Ukraine, and the final 15 percent is spent globally.

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine

Great. You can do something about it yourselves. Without America.

It’s a multipolar world now.

We are having a similar conversation on another thread. @RingoJuice makes a good point. We may not like it, but the US doesn't want to be involved with Europe.

I think it's vastly better to acknowledge and plan for that than expect the average American citizen to be interested in Europe. Last week they pretty much told us that.

There are big problems with all of this because the UK's security has been bound up with the US since 1945 and those links are deep. But Trump is potentially aligning with Russia. That is a big risk to the UK never mind Ukraine.

In short, don't trust the Russians, and the Americans are not our friends. We need to get real.

Looks like we’re going to have to. If the US wants to find itself reviled globally it’s going the right way about it. Tell me how you reconcile your country’s attitude towards immigrants with condoning the invasion of another country.