To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

Although at the extreme range of possibilities, I don't think something like this can be ruled out. The US gets Greenland, possibly mineral rights or some other European territory, and Russia gets the bulk of Europe.

He was elected but his term ended quite some time ago.

and since this war is a proxy war between NATO (the US) and Russia it makes perfect sense for them to be the ones doing the discussing?

no persecution of ethnic Russians? I think those living in Donbas since 2014 might disagree.

is this a serious thread or some kind of attention or memory test?

Why do you think that?

Is this what you want? How much money and how many lives will you sacrifice?

Are you willing to engage in nuclear war to achieve Ukrainian sovereignty?

You do realize how strong America and China will become in this event?

It's pretty normal for elections to be suspended during war. I don't think I've ever seen anyone question Churchill's tenure as PM.

Do you have any evidence of persecution of Russian-speakers in Dunbas? All I can see is that the Russians alleged genocide but that there was zero corroberating evidence.

@tamade

and since this war is a proxy war between NATO (the US) and Russia it makes perfect sense for them to be the ones doing the discussing?

NATO has other influential members bar the US. Why weren't they invited to this discussion if this is a proxy war between NATO and Russia?

I am interested by the poll findings on this thread - 82% of over 600 people think the OP is not unreasonable.
The 18% who think Trump should lead the peace talks are very vocal.

Are they? I've just looked back over last posts it's a mix of discussion. I'm not sure which posters you're referring to here

I don’t agree that any other member of NATO is influential. Just for argument, which members do you think are influential?

Those fuckers will find that millions of people will take up arms and they will have guerrilla warfare on their hands for decades.
I think that will start with Ukraine. They may possibly sign some 'peace' on paper but it will go on, at the very least sporadically, making it a chronically troubled country. No one will profit.

I agree. I’ve been away for a while. I come back and it’s like Mumsnet has been invaded by invaded by right wing bots.

Imho Elon’s after the lithium which both Greenland and Ukraine have in plenty.

@Catsandcheese be careful, you can't point out inconsistencies like this without the risk of deletion.

I always find the timings of posts through the night on threads like this illuminating.

What are you talking about exactly? Why do this hidden dig stuff at all?l

But his mandate is still a legitimate question. Actually I think it would make sense to change the leadership to prepare for peace, axe the axe-man in corporate jargon.

As for the fighting in eastern Ukraine after the revolution it’s pretty well documented that the loyalist forces involved were semi regular like Azov with quite strong opinions on nationalism and that shelling was quite indiscriminate. There’s this as a start: www.osce.org/files/f/documents/b/2/540581.pdf

The bots and the digital arm of Putin's propaganda machine have always been active on here but less so than now. Thanks to AI as well it will be harder to tell them apart.
Well, if you have a human brain you cannot possibly welcome the reign of Trump who -to be fair to him- never hid his aim of becoming the American Caesar. Or Tsar, as they say in Russia.

History is never black and white. I am very aware of some points that the Ukrainians messed up. However the fact remains that Putin launched a full-scale invasion and that should never be condoned or justified.
The idea of elections right now is preposterous, unless you want to make sure there's a Russian puppet in power.

Do you mean a specific poster rn?

No actually.

I agree. I’ve been away for a while. I come back and it’s like Mumsnet has been invaded by invaded by right wing bots.

It's not as it was pre GE no. But then nor is the current view of Labour. Mn is going to reflect that loss in support.

@StandFirm sadly your post about propaganda will probably be reported. But you are not wrong.

Who exactly? If you think people should be wary of a poster which one?

I was agreeing with a general observation. No specific poster or even thread in mind.

Troll hunting on threads is against Talk guidelines, btw. You should not try to encourage it as posters could be suspended or banned for doing so.

How does alluding to posters in your way help?

If you and others have doubts report it or prove it.

Otherwise it sows bad feeling as mnhq have said,

As you say, History is all about perspective and what time you start your analysis from.

Don’t see why they can’t have elections though, or why they would leave Ukraine with a Russian stooge. I doubt that any serious candidate would be even slightly pro-Russian, I’d expect different degrees of pro-peace or pragmatism

I haven't alluded to any posters. I simply agreed with someone else's post. If you think that breaks guidelines, report it. Now please leave me alone.