To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

in a tatical sense, a good plan half the world rebuilds and they go to war

@SunnyDayInFeb I could be wrong but because cup cakes had errors and the "wrong words" in her posts ie not 100% singing to the choir she was roundly attacked and then used whatever he /she uses.

Can't win it seems, if people don't like the format, don't engage with it

I agree. Starmer's view must be there will be no security guarantee unless Trump engages. How do you do that, well you say the UK will engage. It's implausible that the UK can carry that guarantee alone, but it opens up the conversation on how the guarantees work.

European countries do actually have to think practically as to how this will work. You can see a massive level of denial in certain EU countries and institutions. They are not fast enough and they are divided.

OP when I saw that photo of Putin and Trump at the table it seemed like the obvious outcome of the entire US election. I think this was the point of the whole thing.

This is clearly a new Trump Putin alliance which will aggressively power Russia's interests in Europe, which means a very dangerous time for us. They don't care about or respect Europe/Ukraine and see us and NATO as enemies to be dominated.

thats the thing i want to be part of the talks but which ever way i word things its oh pickles so to speak, much appricated for your post

in a sense we setup NATO to counter russia to begin with,

@Cupcakes2035 yes indeed I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch but if China did create covid it's all very convenient

@SunnyDayInFeb - I'm with you. Chat GPT is not an informed view. It tells you nothing as to how a poster really thinks. And we are interested in human views, not a LLM.

id love to read the security service files on it all, then there was the ep of spooks where it was similar to covid but a different name, so the idea also is not new for that type of virus

I am cringing at the whole emergency summit it's not a show of strength is it!

This should have been done with less drama when it looked like Trump may win the election.

Now starmer has caused division because others don't feel he should be offering troops without any deals done and I don't think putin will worry about UK troops at all.

The eu has been left naked and weak and vulnerable now the tides out.

Oh look Russia wants lifting of sanctions... what a surprise and of course a natural argument for them to make.

I wonder how long the EU will last?

Trump may lift a few sanctions even before the deal is concluded.

What the EU do if that happens will tell us all so much about a security guarantee

Are they meeting today ??

Many people did expect it, or at least saw it as a real possibility.

Just like many people - including Trump - said Germany's dependence on Russian oil was going to be a problem.

There seem to be a lot of people mixed up about the difference between some sort of be nice, join the club, friend, attitude, and actual international relations.

@Cupcakes2035 please don't worry about spelling and grammar, just be yourself. On serious threads like this one people don't waste time commenting on spelling which is a genuine mistake through typing too fast, not checking the text before posting or because spelling knowledge is not top notch.
Please feel comfortable enough to engage using your own words and thoughts. We can all understand the meaning.
I am terrible at spotting ai generated /aided content and even I thought some of your posts looked a bit strange.
Informed contributions and questions are what make this thread useful to a lot of people. Just go for it and don't worry about spelling stuff.

very kind of you and very much appricated

@AlternativeView

"Unfortunately they, the eu have little leverage here because they are not strong enough military wise.

Putin is loving cutting Europe out!
He wouldn't dream of this if any eu country was actually a real threat to him.
He knows are all just relying on USA "

Basically it a cold shower wake up call to European NATO countries that because they have been spending less than 2.5% of GDP on defence for decades, preferring to freeload off US taxpayers then their opinion has now become irrelevant.

If the threat of Russian invasion across Europe is so real why have they not done anything about it?"

This is a really good point- either the Governments don't believe it to be a real threat or the Gov and voters don't care if it is a real threat. Either way none of them seem keen to increase defence spending.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14407423/starmer-ukraine-peace-plan-germany-rejects.html

Yeh it's not great. Starmer jumped the gun

They all want US to be there or some won't. Thats a minimum factor anyway

Listening to American update conference

"President Trump is the only person who can make this happen"....Well yes he's the only one prepared to capitulate to Russia that much before formal talks even began. Incredulous

Risk Analyst Sam de Bendern on Sky News

"This was not peace talks nor a negotiation, but a business meeting,"

"A business meeting between the representatives of two bosses, who want to decide how best to share the spoils of war.

That is really what we're seeing here."

https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3lih5p35fw22z

Member of the European Parliament Lagodinsky claims he was notified about the intentions by Trump's team.

A proposal consisting 3 stages:

1. A ceasefire
2. Elections in Ukraine
3. Signing of a final agreement

He called it a 'complete fulfillment of Putin's desires and a gift to Putin by Trump.

I am honestly struggling to see how this is a capitulation.

Putin wanted the whole of Ukraine. He wanted a dummy government in Kiev.

He's not achieved this at all and he won't
The moment he withdraws and stops the war, Ukraine will be flooded with arms and equipment and planes.
Possibly peace keeping forces along the border

How is this bowling to putin demands?

Who knows if putin can be lured. Out of Moscow someone may take a pot shot and get more than an ear, maybe this will pave the way for a free Russia?

Yes. Russia will seek to interfere in any election in Ukraine. Probably they will kindly offer to supervise the vote in the areas that they have occupied.

Ceasefire, install puppet regime in Kiev, final deal sees Ukraine stripped of its army and subservient to Moscow with mineral rights for the US. Next stop baltic states.

No key issues were existing lands taken by invasion/war and NATO membership

Capitulation