To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

Agreed. Hence exclude everyone else from talks

How hilarious. He’s a posturer and Trump is an adult?

I’ve read it all now.

Back in reality, he’s an elected leader of his country who has done a tremendous job in horrific circumstances. What would you bet on Trump staying put and coping in a similar situation? Not a chance - he’d be first on the plane out of the country.

@sleepwouldbenice I disagree he wanted Ukraine.

These are the initial talks to get things going and see how serious they are about peace.
If these talks go well I'm sure Ukraine will be involved soon.

Russia says NATO must disavow 2008 membership promise to Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-nato-must-disavow-2008-membership-promise-ukraine-2025-02-18/

But they don't mind then joining the eu (because that means zilch)

"Putin wanted....."

To be honest it can't be viewed as anything other than capitulation to give that war criminal anything other than a trial at The Hague

Nothing, absolutely nothing that happens in Ukraine is the business of Putin.

Not their elections, their national language, their defence of their country, their church.

How then hell, in this century, have we reached the stage that civilised countries bend the knee to savages

Wanted yes

But at the point of negotiations he doesn't have it

He wants much more than Ukraine. Shall we see it as good negotiation that he hasn't been given other countries as well?

@wholettheturnipsburn I 100 %agree but unfortunately and I know this isn't entirely Ukraine fault but it is relying i on an entire community to defend it and I believe that community is only mainly doing so because it's on their turf, borders.

It's easier to give a tank here and there or some ammo than actually properly invest in their own military.

@sleepwouldbenice no?

He doesn't but can you guarantee he won't get it?

I wasn't have a go at you BTW

I'm just so angry/despairing/frustrated

@wholettheturnipsburn the best thing for the whole world is if someone can take him out.
The Russian people are not in a happy place either, just putting a rose on navalnies memorial would cause trouble for them.

Everyone would cheer if they can get rid of him he's done nothing for the people of Russia.

And yet it was Angela Merkel who insisted on buying gas from Russia which is a big part of how he funds the war and gave him influences and control despite objections from many leaders including Trump.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-blasts-germany-at-nato-summit-over-gas-pipeline-deal-with-russia/

“It's very sad when Germany makes a massive gas oil and gas deal with Russia where you're supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia," he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/11/germany-and-russia-gas-links-trump-questions-europe-nord-stream2

Well that was definitely a mistake on Merkel's part. There have been issues with the German political establishment getting far too close to the Russians. I think an ex chancellor Schroder? became a lobbyist for a Russian gas company.

The invasion of Ukraine was a wake up call for Germany. But I don't know how they will react to what is happening now. The main right wing party seems very pro ukraine and wants to stand up to Russia. However the far right party that Musk and Vance have been supporting is pro Putin.

That's kind of the point. That guarantee from a united front has been binned at the whim of an egotistical idiot

Russia punches above it's weight. This whole invasion has shown how ineffective their army is. Even if a pragmatic deal is done to end the killing and Ukraine loses some territory I think history will view them as the 'winners'.
America arranging these talks with Russia and excluding others is immensely disappointing. I also suspect that their purpose was to undermine Europe rather than advance any peace talks. I think they want to shame Europe into taking more direct responsibility for sorting things out themselves. Perhaps they have a point but I think this could have been achieved in a way that did not belittle Ukraine and enhance Russia.

Russia punches above it's weight. This whole invasion has shown how ineffective their army is.

I feel like a lot of Russian power stems from their ability to manipulate and the weaknesss of others. I honestly think if the US and Europe had sent Ukraine everything they needed then they would have been able to expel Russia from their territory and Putin might no longer be in power.

I agree. I have no problem with Europe paying and doing more for its own defence
But the way this has been done? Pathetic

My cynicism gained over seven decades on this planet refuses to allow me to believe this.

Our PM said that the Ukraine front-line is also Europe's front line.

That's been said many times re Europe front line but Europe doesn't seem to concern about it and poor zelensky saying the same things he was saying years ago.

I bet he really wants to scream, wake up and pull your fingers out you bloody fools

Yes. Russia is going to invade other European countries now. Finland next? This is appeasement and it does not work.

@SunnyDayInFeb the fear and deterrent has always been nukes

Yes, this.

Macron/France announced first. Are you saying he should have called France out?

Russia will never accept NATO membership for Ukraine and frankly they'd be stupid to do so. No one wants their enemies right on their borders.

The fact that it was under discussion was seen as a provocation in itself.