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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

899 replies

WandsOut · 26/05/2024 15:13

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 15:57

WickedSerious · 27/05/2024 15:54

It's like seeing double.

Which two?

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:00

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 15:56

@ExtraDay I only half disagree with your premise. The people willing to put themselves through these procedures are aligning their bodies with their inner selves. And some of the treatments are about much more than appearance. Altering the oestrogen/testosterone balance (also progesterone) in the body changes us quite a lot. All of us who have good and bad times in our cycles know that! So I see physically transitioning as much bigger than changing appearance

I agree it’s a very small subset. I have never been so shocked at the outrage, much of it poorly reasoned, this has generated. I’d wager many PPs have never knowingly met someone who has fully transitioned physically in their lives.

It is particularly ironic because the hormone treatment really does modify aggression, and alleged aggression is the basis for many of the claims about why the physically transitioned are amongst the dangerous.

I despise prejudice. In the large absence of facts to back the claims about the physically transitioned, that’s the vibe of many of these posts.

For the nth time, I favour separate changing spaces. Within reasonable parameters I also favour giving professionals the chance to do their jobs. Since I am not actually an HCP (and only entered a hypothetical situation by request) I am fine with the idea that others may disagree but on the whole I will prioritise other battles

Wanting single sex spaces for privacy and dignity is not prejudice. Single sex meaning that, not including a small number of males with a GRC as you outline.

I despise the framing of it in that way tbf

It dismisses women and ignores their lack of consent.

WickedSerious · 27/05/2024 16:01

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 15:57

Which two?

Take your pick.

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:01

WickedSerious · 27/05/2024 15:54

It's like seeing double.

Yep. The ‘well conditioned swimmer’ line is an odd one

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:03

It’s the full phrase ‘gorgeous Alex Drummond. Bearded trans woman…’ under an unflattering photo that’s the clue, @heathspeedwell

I have addressed your other point above

Itwasabrightcoldayinapril · 27/05/2024 16:06

WickedSerious · 27/05/2024 15:54

It's like seeing double.

😂😂

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:06

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:01

Yep. The ‘well conditioned swimmer’ line is an odd one

I have several friends who swim at a high level. They are all broad of shoulder with narrow hips.

Itwasabrightcoldayinapril · 27/05/2024 16:06

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:06

I have several friends who swim at a high level. They are all broad of shoulder with narrow hips.

But did the men have dicks?

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:07

I think DH and I may enjoy some of these posts tonight

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:07

Itwasabrightcoldayinapril · 27/05/2024 16:06

But did the men have dicks?

What men? No men in my scenario

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:07

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:06

I have several friends who swim at a high level. They are all broad of shoulder with narrow hips.

Female friends do you mean? Are you suggesting they look like men?

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:08

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:00

Wanting single sex spaces for privacy and dignity is not prejudice. Single sex meaning that, not including a small number of males with a GRC as you outline.

I despise the framing of it in that way tbf

It dismisses women and ignores their lack of consent.

I hope you go out and fight for what you believe in then, beyond launching cheap cannon fodder on MumsNet. I do

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:09

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:07

I think DH and I may enjoy some of these posts tonight

Eh? In what way

Winnading · 27/05/2024 16:09

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:03

It’s the full phrase ‘gorgeous Alex Drummond. Bearded trans woman…’ under an unflattering photo that’s the clue, @heathspeedwell

I have addressed your other point above

Ummm that's what Alex looks like, it's hardly anyones fault if Alex's face is "unflattering "

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:10

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:08

I hope you go out and fight for what you believe in then, beyond launching cheap cannon fodder on MumsNet. I do

Why? It’s not something you want, you prefer mixed sex

Winnading · 27/05/2024 16:10

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:08

I hope you go out and fight for what you believe in then, beyond launching cheap cannon fodder on MumsNet. I do

Wtf do you think we do already. 20 plus years of my life to this and still having to defend women.

It's about time men and some women woke the fuck up.

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:10

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:07

Female friends do you mean? Are you suggesting they look like men?

Well their DH obviously don’t think so. Nor come to think of it do I. Have you not seen female athletes in person or on TV? Many of them are mesomorphs

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:13

Winnading · 27/05/2024 16:10

Wtf do you think we do already. 20 plus years of my life to this and still having to defend women.

It's about time men and some women woke the fuck up.

I was referring to a single point of disagreement. I am happy with the level of my involvement in the teal world fight for women’s rights, thank you

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:13

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:10

Why? It’s not something you want, you prefer mixed sex

WTH? Mixed sex what???

WickedSerious · 27/05/2024 16:15

EasternStandard · 27/05/2024 16:07

Female friends do you mean? Are you suggesting they look like men?

They won't look like those curvy men.

poetryandwine · 27/05/2024 16:15

Winnading · 27/05/2024 16:09

Ummm that's what Alex looks like, it's hardly anyones fault if Alex's face is "unflattering "

So you posted her photo to garner agreement on this point? Nasty

MuddlingMackem · 27/05/2024 16:26

PTSDBarbiegirl · 26/05/2024 15:29

Women are entitled to protection under The Equality Act. This man does not have this same right as he has not undergone reassignment surgery, which would give him a protected characteristic. Why can't men like this use the men's changing rooms. This whole issue is a male issue and the male sex class need to find solutions to some men apparently not feeling safe in male spaces. Women have a right to safety. The sooner this ridiculous load of shit is over the better. Then we can get real about male violence, autogynophilia, porn culture and male coercion.

Even if he has a GRC women are still entitled to single-sex spaces in such circumstances.

heathspeedwell · 27/05/2024 16:33

@poetryandwine , you mentioned 'the gorgeous Laverne Cox' who is incredibly unrepresentative of the vast majority of transwomen. You can hardly complain if I then mention 'the gorgeous Alex Drummond'.

And it's very unfair of you to suggest that I posted 'unflattering' video footage of Alex - if you'd bothered to watch it you would see Alex explaining that actually so many women find bearded transwoman Alex attractive that Alex 'brings out their inner lesbian'.

I'm not exaggerating - those are Alex's exact words.

How odd that you think it's 'nasty' to point out Alex's beard.

OneTC · 27/05/2024 16:36

I think Alex looks pretty good bottom right in that thumbnail, sharp hair, neat beard, killer jaw. Not an unflattering pic in the slightest I reckon